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Author Topic: If you don't print, then what do you leave behind?  (Read 29203 times)

Peter McLennan

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Re: If you don't print, then what do you leave behind?
« Reply #80 on: January 15, 2014, 12:54:43 pm »

good news is, I sometimes see very powerful and beautiful images produced by non-technical people who would otherwise have never been able to express themselves in imagery.

Bill illuminates a key point in "The Golden Age of Photography": Everyone's a photographer now.  Maybe not a good photographer, but a photographer nonetheless.  And that's a good thing for both them and photography.

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Alan Klein

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Re: If you don't print, then what do you leave behind?
« Reply #81 on: January 15, 2014, 02:42:41 pm »

Ray;  That's a great picture.  The older gentlemen in the front row looks like Robert E. Lee.  Do you come from a Southern family? :)

Rob C

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Re: If you don't print, then what do you leave behind?
« Reply #82 on: January 15, 2014, 04:13:57 pm »

Bill illuminates a key point in "The Golden Age of Photography": Everyone's a photographer now.  Maybe not a good photographer, but a photographer nonetheless.  And that's a good thing for both them and photography.




Why do you believe that to be so, Peter?

Everyone can find a piece of paper and a pencil, but I never heard anyone saying that they thought that was a great thing for the traditional arts. Why would piling up the world with more and more trash be a 'good thing'? And it will be trash. Democracy of that sort always does produce more trash. The great will always find its way out, regardless of hurdles, but mindless junk never even thinks about itself - it just is. Tons and tons of it, all around us, and when we don't see it anymore we should know that's because we just grew too used to it. It's like our sense of smell: after a while we don't notice anything anymore, good or bad.

Rob C

Ray

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Re: If you don't print, then what do you leave behind?
« Reply #83 on: January 15, 2014, 06:05:34 pm »

Ray;  That's a great picture.  The older gentlemen in the front row looks like Robert E. Lee.  Do you come from a Southern family? :)

Thanks! As far as I know, they're all Scottish, Alan, although I'm half Welsh.  :)
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Alan Klein

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Re: If you don't print, then what do you leave behind?
« Reply #84 on: January 15, 2014, 06:34:46 pm »

Ray:  Not Lee but Andrew Carnegie, the Scotland born American steel magnate of the 19th century!

http://www.biography.com/people/andrew-carnegie-9238756

Ray

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Re: If you don't print, then what do you leave behind?
« Reply #85 on: January 15, 2014, 06:54:49 pm »

Yes, I see a resemblance, Alan. I'm embarrassed to admit that I know very little about my family tree. I've never even lived in Scotland. Perhaps I should dig into my history on one of these ancestry.com sites. I'm not sure it's a priority though. Got so many other things to do.
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Ray

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Re: If you don't print, then what do you leave behind?
« Reply #86 on: January 15, 2014, 07:00:24 pm »

Everyone can find a piece of paper and a pencil, but I never heard anyone saying that they thought that was a great thing for the traditional arts.

It must be, Rob. What sort of art would we get if there were no paper, canvas, pen, pencil or paint brush available. Probably something like Aboriginal rock carvings and cave paintings at best. A bit restrictive, maybe, but fine in their own right.

Quote
The great will always find its way out, regardless of hurdles...

How can we be sure? That's a very broad assumption. Only the great that has succeeded in making its way out comes to our attention. However, I suppose if one defines 'greatness' as that quality which can transcend and overcome all hurdles, then you would be right.
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Rob C

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Re: If you don't print, then what do you leave behind?
« Reply #87 on: January 16, 2014, 09:18:01 am »

Ray, why don't you just take my word for it?

;-)

Rob C

Peter McLennan

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Re: If you don't print, then what do you leave behind?
« Reply #88 on: January 16, 2014, 12:35:42 pm »

Anyhoo, GoPro is passe.  The Mobius is the new king of first person POV.  

I thought to myself: "That's the first time I've disagreed with Bill."  Now, having done my due diligence, I'm back.  And I'm inclined to agree with myself.  The Mobius looks like good value, but its lack of an easily-changed battery cripples it. I do like the form factor.

I bought one of these for my vehicle. 

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00F2GMWCG/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pd_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=1WCEA3DWLFV89&coliid=I1ELOEY7YKHFHE

Same price league as the Mobius, lacks a removable battery and an intervalometer, but it has a VIEWFINDER.  Quite a useful innovation in a camera. : )

All of which proves nothing other than that the GP is a stepping stone.  Far better "action" cameras are on the horizon.
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Peter McLennan

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Re: If you don't print, then what do you leave behind?
« Reply #89 on: January 16, 2014, 12:44:41 pm »


Why do you believe that to be so, Peter?

Everyone can find a piece of paper and a pencil, but I never heard anyone saying that they thought that was a great thing for the traditional arts.
Rob C

The high cost of entry and the high price per image has historically inhibited photography's acceptance by the general public.  This was never so for paper and pencil - only a lack of initiative  stopped one from participating.

The low cost of entry and zero cost per image has encouraged everyone to learn to photograph.  The fact that a lot of crap has materialized is irrelevant.  Tens of millions of people are learning photography and every one of their mistakes teaches them something.

Slobodan's post of the Russian woman's farm photographs illustrates my point perfectly.

http://www.boredpanda.com/animal-children-photography-elena-shumilova/?fb_action_ids=10202522404557284&fb_action_types=og.likes&fb_source=other_multiline&action_object_map=%5B600223250049386%5D&action_type_map=%5B%22og.likes%22%5D&action_ref_map

 This woman is an amateur photographer. Absent inexpensive digital photography, I doubt that she'd ever have progressed so far, so fast.  And that would be our loss.  And photography's.

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Rob C

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Re: If you don't print, then what do you leave behind?
« Reply #90 on: January 16, 2014, 03:17:40 pm »

The high cost of entry and the high price per image has historically inhibited photography's acceptance by the general public.  This was never so for paper and pencil - only a lack of initiative  stopped one from participating.

The low cost of entry and zero cost per image has encouraged everyone to learn to photograph.  The fact that a lot of crap has materialized is irrelevant.  Tens of millions of people are learning photography and every one of their mistakes teaches them something.

Slobodan's post of the Russian woman's farm photographs illustrates my point perfectly.

http://www.boredpanda.com/animal-children-photography-elena-shumilova/?fb_action_ids=10202522404557284&fb_action_types=og.likes&fb_source=other_multiline&action_object_map=%5B600223250049386%5D&action_type_map=%5B%22og.likes%22%5D&action_ref_map

 This woman is an amateur photographer. Absent inexpensive digital photography, I doubt that she'd ever have progressed so far, so fast.  And that would be our loss.  And photography's.





I had a box Bownie at one stage, then a little Brownie Reflex TLR, the former running 620 and the latter 127, I think - prints were almost free; Mr Eastman took care of that. Paper and pencil being cheaply available and pretty ubiquitous isn't the point: the point is that even with all that pile of paper and those mugs full of standing, sentinel pencils with rubber helmets, the artists coming forth from all of that possibility have always formed but a tiny minority. Neither do I accept that either all of those dabbling with graphite desired to become proficient artists any more than those with toy digital cameras today intend to 'learn' photography, as you put it. The camera is just a notebook in which to record lunch or a family event, much as the honest little Brownie was.

The step up from dabbling and learning is huge: most of all it requires intent, and then dedication. With those you will probably learn, but that won't mean you become good. You just acquire a better idea of why you might not be.

As I mentioned somewhere earlier today or yesterday, the good will always out. It doesn't require recognition to be good: think Viv M. Nobody knew of her, yet she had more talent than many of those who did much the same thing only in a more attention-gathering milieu.

I really can't buy into the notion that 'everybody' doing it means more good people doing it. Good was ever tightly rationed.

But then that's just how I see life - I don't expect many others to feel like that, and it really doesn't matter to them nor to me, does it? We think as we do, and as long as we don't prevent others from thinking as they do (as long as that doesn't harm others) 'tis fine by me.

;-)

Rob C

Peter McLennan

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Re: If you don't print, then what do you leave behind?
« Reply #91 on: January 16, 2014, 05:04:07 pm »


 We think as we do, and as long as we don't prevent others from thinking as they do (as long as that doesn't harm others) 'tis fine by me.

;-)

Rob C


Agreed.

And, as you Brits are fond of saying, "There it is, then."  : )
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NickNod

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Re: If you don't print, then what do you leave behind?
« Reply #92 on: January 21, 2014, 04:06:49 am »

Interesting questions. Digital files are really easily forgortten and lost. I'm using cloud storage for storing, but there are too many photos, I can't find the one I need timely. Maybe I really need to print the great ones into photos.  ::)

Rob C

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Re: If you don't print, then what do you leave behind?
« Reply #93 on: January 21, 2014, 05:38:40 am »

Interesting questions. Digital files are really easily forgortten and lost. I'm using cloud storage for storing, but there are too many photos, I can't find the one I need timely. Maybe I really need to print the great ones into photos.  ::)


Just keep a nice external hard drive handy; as long as you keep your shots in reasonably logical folders, it's quick enough finding stuff.

In film days, we all (I expect) used to run a shoot ledger, with the negatives/transparencies numbered in order; if you remembered the client (the model usually helped you remember the shoot - for better or for worse) then it was simply a matter of consulting the good book. Not the Good Book, just your own.

Books seldom crashed.

Rob C

niznai

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Re: If you don't print, then what do you leave behind?
« Reply #94 on: January 21, 2014, 11:05:31 pm »

It must be, Rob. What sort of art would we get if there were no paper, canvas, pen, pencil or paint brush available. Probably something like Aboriginal rock carvings and cave paintings at best. A bit restrictive, maybe, but fine in their own right.

How can we be sure? That's a very broad assumption. Only the great that has succeeded in making its way out comes to our attention. However, I suppose if one defines 'greatness' as that quality which can transcend and overcome all hurdles, then you would be right.


There's the answer to the title question. Rock/cave paintings. At least those are guaranteed to last a while and they were already there, so no environmental damage is inflicted.

Not sure about the second statement though. A lot of headstones have transcended more than anyone here or elsewhere can guarantee about their own work, yet, sometimes apart from size, greatness is not their main feature.
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Rob C

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Re: If you don't print, then what do you leave behind?
« Reply #95 on: January 22, 2014, 09:16:14 am »

There's the answer to the title question. Rock/cave paintings. At least those are guaranteed to last a while and they were already there, so no environmental damage is inflicted.

Not sure about the second statement though. A lot of headstones have transcended more than anyone here or elsewhere can guarantee about their own work, yet, sometimes apart from size, greatness is not their main feature.


And even there, much of the best is reserved for Paris. The dead can be choosy, too.

;-(

Rob C

Ray

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Re: If you don't print, then what do you leave behind?
« Reply #96 on: January 22, 2014, 09:43:37 am »

On the subject of greatness, regarding human endeavour, I recently came across a relevant quote from the 30th U.S. President, Calvin Coolidge.

This is what he is reputed to have said:

"Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than the unsuccessful man with talent.

Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not -- the world is full of educated derelicts.

Persistence and determination are omnipotent."
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Eric Myrvaagnes

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Re: If you don't print, then what do you leave behind?
« Reply #97 on: January 22, 2014, 10:10:34 am »

On the subject of greatness, regarding human endeavour, I recently came across a relevant quote from the 30th U.S. President, Calvin Coolidge.

This is what he is reputed to have said:

"Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than the unsuccessful man with talent.

Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not -- the world is full of educated derelicts.

Persistence and determination are omnipotent."

Cal may be right, unfortunately. Just think about most successful politicians, who have neither talent, nor genius, nor education.
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Alan Klein

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Re: If you don't print, then what do you leave behind?
« Reply #98 on: January 22, 2014, 10:22:26 am »

Eric:  Calvin wasn't talking about successful men with talent but rather unsuccessful men with talent.  If they're successful, well, they're successful!

RSL

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Re: If you don't print, then what do you leave behind?
« Reply #99 on: January 22, 2014, 03:13:03 pm »

Cal may be right, unfortunately. Just think about most successful politicians, who have neither talent, nor genius, nor education.

I think you have to start by defining success, Eric. Is being able to lie convincingly success? Depends on your point of view. If you're a politician the answer is yes. For most of us the answer is no.
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