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Author Topic: If you don't print, then what do you leave behind?  (Read 29182 times)

Rob C

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Re: If you don't print, then what do you leave behind?
« Reply #40 on: January 07, 2014, 03:38:16 pm »

I think that it's a mistake to believe that because some rare stuff from the 20s until the 60s - say - might have been quite interesting, that more from the past couple of decades is also worth retaining. The early years were great, too, because nothing like photography had happened, but once it became mass culture...

I think the 60s had some revolutionary visual tokens - fashions, for example - and with the snappers with the eye to snap it well, but apart from that obvious pop culture genre, what was there that matters?  From the last couple of decades, it's an ever harder guess. Even the fashion interest has vanished into a mess of uniformity, a kind of absolute lack of character. And how do you photograph nothing and make that of interest? There is no fashion anymore. Well, not in the vox pop sense of the meaning of the word fashion. Perhaps there are the empty housing estates nobody bought; the dead factories etc. but those aren't things that form part of the general photographic gamut enjoyed by the masses, which I think is what we are on about preserving here. Anyway, I suppose all the newspaper files and agency shoe-boxes have that stuff well-covered. God, just think of the zillion picture libraries that exist... enough crap in there to float the next Titanic and also to sink it, if it gets cold enough.

Rob C

WalterEG

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Re: If you don't print, then what do you leave behind?
« Reply #41 on: January 07, 2014, 04:07:02 pm »

Rob,

Perhaps the elephant in the room of what you say is that there was energy, tension, adventure, relief and rebellion to be expressed in earlier times and those energies translated well to visual presentation.  Such is no longer the case.  Modern Western life is excessively affluent and vision is clouded by the veil that complacency weaves over our eyes.  There simply isn't any vitality or attitude to depict because we are largely comatose with self-delusion and self-importance.

I am very much of the school of:  'I came, I did stuff and, when I'm gone, who is gonna give a shit.'  Whether I print or not, what I'll leave behind are the etiolated clamourings of the wannabes that never were.

W
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Rob C

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Re: If you don't print, then what do you leave behind?
« Reply #42 on: January 07, 2014, 04:44:49 pm »

Rob,

Perhaps the elephant in the room of what you say is that there was energy, tension, adventure, relief and rebellion to be expressed in earlier times and those energies translated well to visual presentation.  Such is no longer the case.  Modern Western life is excessively affluent and vision is clouded by the veil that complacency weaves over our eyes.  There simply isn't any vitality or attitude to depict because we are largely comatose with self-delusion and self-importance.

I am very much of the school of:  'I came, I did stuff and, when I'm gone, who is gonna give a shit.'  Whether I print or not, what I'll leave behind are the etiolated clamourings of the wannabes that never were.

W


Can't argue with that; it's really enough to have achieved whatever one has managed to achieve, and let it be. Thing is, we often seem to forget what we managed to achieve in our fifteen minutes. My wife was very cute with that: as is no secret, I find myself down in the dumps very easily, and it ain't nothing new for me to feel the sackcloth where I expected velvet. At such times, she would say what's wrong with you? You did this, that and the other which few you knew in your pond even dreamed about, told you was impossible - wake up and sniff the Chanel 5! So I'd nuzzle her neck, and life became great again. I still have that part-used Chanel spray on the vanitory unit in the bathroom; my daughter got the bottle. Sometimes I take off the cap and relive times past.

That's what the website was eventually made for; it became a repository for the few great working moments I wanted to remember, and it's why I deeply regret having sold or destroyed all of my fashion negs and trannies. I did far more fashion than calendars over more years, and there's nothing left. But who in '81 knew the Internet was coming?

So that's probably my little attempt towards an epitaph: a website.

Rob C

bill t.

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Re: If you don't print, then what do you leave behind?
« Reply #43 on: January 07, 2014, 05:06:41 pm »

I will start a web site that allows one to write and constantly update his or her own epitaph.  The epitaph itself will appear as an image on one's choice of tombstones displayed in a pleasant variety of graveyards, or over a user supplied picture of the family plot.  A few clicks and the latest edit can be instantly shared in jpeg format on one's favorite social networks.  I believe this will make it easy to stay focused on the meaning and significance of one's life.  When the epitaph has not been updated for a certain period of time, the last one will be engraved in stone and sent to a predetermined burial site.
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sdwilsonsct

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Re: If you don't print, then what do you leave behind?
« Reply #44 on: January 07, 2014, 05:17:26 pm »

...what I'll leave behind are the etiolated clamourings of the wannabes that never were.

 :D
Quote of the day?

JayWPage

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Re: If you don't print, then what do you leave behind?
« Reply #45 on: January 07, 2014, 07:03:23 pm »

I will start a web site that allows one to write and constantly update his or her own epitaph.  The epitaph itself will appear as an image on one's choice of tombstones displayed in a pleasant variety of graveyards, or over a user supplied picture of the family plot.  A few clicks and the latest edit can be instantly shared in jpeg format on one's favorite social networks.  I believe this will make it easy to stay focused on the meaning and significance of one's life.

I suppose this could be called an autobituary.  :P

I think photography that is great art today, that has an emotional impact on the viewer will be seen in a similar way in the future. That will be it's value, not because it was taken by some long forgotten photographer.
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Rob C

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Re: If you don't print, then what do you leave behind?
« Reply #46 on: January 08, 2014, 04:44:14 am »

I suppose this could be called an autobituary.  :P

I think photography that is great art today, that has an emotional impact on the viewer will be seen in a similar way in the future. That will be it's value, not because it was taken by some long forgotten photographer.


That's a position of extreme paradox: most of all the great shots of the past have known, famous authors. That's what, largely, makes them famous. Context or content are often later hyped to match the current commercial fame of the snapper.

It's an 'ard world oot there, and it belongs to someone else.

Rob C

RSL

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Re: If you don't print, then what do you leave behind?
« Reply #47 on: January 08, 2014, 09:34:48 am »

Rob,

Perhaps the elephant in the room of what you say is that there was energy, tension, adventure, relief and rebellion to be expressed in earlier times and those energies translated well to visual presentation.  Such is no longer the case.  Modern Western life is excessively affluent and vision is clouded by the veil that complacency weaves over our eyes.  There simply isn't any vitality or attitude to depict because we are largely comatose with self-delusion and self-importance.

I am very much of the school of:  'I came, I did stuff and, when I'm gone, who is gonna give a shit.'  Whether I print or not, what I'll leave behind are the etiolated clamourings of the wannabes that never were.

W

Walter,

I agree with what you're saying, but a record of that complacency, affluence, lack of vitality, self-delusion and self-importance should be left for future generations. That's one reason why I love real street photography. It's not things like HCB's fantastic talent for intuitive, instant composition that matters, or, as in the case of Atget the look you get at the physical milieu of earlier times. What really matters is what you can learn about things like their energy, tension, adventure, confidence, vitality, etc., from the interplay between the people of a different time in a good street shot.

I'm also of the school of "what the hell" when it comes to the longevity of my photographs. When I'm gone my negatives and files will be there. If somebody wants to do his PhD thesis on them, fine. If not, that's fine too. My photographs never have been a matter of "achievement" for me, but simply a way to have fun.
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WalterEG

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Re: If you don't print, then what do you leave behind?
« Reply #48 on: January 08, 2014, 02:11:33 pm »

It is funny that you just reminded me, Russ, that I have always archivally processed my negatives and wet darkroom prints.  It is just such an automatic thing that I clean overlooked it. 

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niznai

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Re: If you don't print, then what do you leave behind?
« Reply #49 on: January 11, 2014, 05:59:56 am »

That's a good point. If resource depletion causes civilization to collapse, our digital files will soon be useless, but we'll still be able to enjoy our prints. On the other hand, when the fossil fuels run out people may well have to burn the prints to keep warm.:(

Ha! And ha again.

I know I sure am going to be looking at pictures if civilisation will collapse. Pictures of food, perhaps.
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Justan

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Re: If you don't print, then what do you leave behind?
« Reply #50 on: January 11, 2014, 11:47:20 am »

I will start a web site that allows one to write and constantly update his or her own epitaph.  The epitaph itself will appear as an image on one's choice of tombstones displayed in a pleasant variety of graveyards, or over a user supplied picture of the family plot.  A few clicks and the latest edit can be instantly shared in jpeg format on one's favorite social networks.  I believe this will make it easy to stay focused on the meaning and significance of one's life.  When the epitaph has not been updated for a certain period of time, the last one will be engraved in stone and sent to a predetermined burial site.

In a way, that's what facebook and other similar sites do.

Alan Klein

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Re: If you don't print, then what do you leave behind?
« Reply #51 on: January 11, 2014, 12:11:12 pm »

The pictures I hung in my house were taken down over time as my wife changed the decor.  Now that we moved, nothing is hanging.  However, the 16x20 photo in a 24x28" white matted frame I gave my sister in Florida still hangs on her wall.  I love seeing it up there on the wall when I visit.  She tells me she loves it.  It's her favorite picture.   Maybe she likes it because it's so damn hot down there.  Who knows? http://www.flickr.com/photos/alanklein2000/5262311503/in/set-72157625476289859

So that's the clue.  Give framed pictures of your favorite photos to your relatives and friends - now.  Maybe even organizations you're associated with.  So when you visit with them you'll see your work hanging and you'll get good vibes and appreciation from the people and organizations you gave them too.  They'll probably be hanging there years after you're gone and maybe passed on to others.

Isn't that enough?

Rob C

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Re: If you don't print, then what do you leave behind?
« Reply #52 on: January 11, 2014, 01:50:08 pm »



So that's the clue.  Give framed pictures of your favorite photos to your relatives and friends - now.  Maybe even organizations you're associated with.  So when you visit with them you'll see your work hanging and you'll get good vibes and appreciation from the people and organizations you gave them too.  They'll probably be hanging there years after you're gone and maybe passed on to others.

Isn't that enough?



Are you sure? Obligation's a funny thing - it can ruin families.

;-)

Rob C

JayWPage

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Re: If you don't print, then what do you leave behind?
« Reply #53 on: January 11, 2014, 03:10:03 pm »

Most people who buy a picture are probably going to value it and make some effort to preserve their investment. So unless we are talking about family pictures, the landscape/fine art picture that is sold is probably going to receive better care than the picture that is given away.

My experience has been that photos I've given away rarely get framed and hung on the wall, and even with family pictures I'm lucky if they end up on the piano behind the other relatives.
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Alan Klein

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Re: If you don't print, then what do you leave behind?
« Reply #54 on: January 11, 2014, 10:23:45 pm »

Jay:  My suggestion was to include a beautiful frame of a well done picture.  The way it worked with my sister was I asked her which of the 20 or so framed pictures I had did she want and gave her that one.  Sometimes I feel (guiltily) that I wish I still had it.  But that's the point.  It has to be valuable  to you.  Hopefully them.  And your best ones, not the ones you think are just average.  Take the best ones off your wall and give those away.  Number them.  Name the one you give away 1 of 10, Jay Page 2014.  Theirs should always be number 1.  Listen. They have  a better chance of staying up of their wall then staying on your wall after your dead and your wife's next husband throws them all out. 

dgberg

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Re: If you don't print, then what do you leave behind?
« Reply #55 on: January 12, 2014, 07:25:22 am »

A great read so far.
Also of interest to me is why many photographers print almost as an addiction (me) and others have zero interest.
I am sure many of you have seen famed photographer Vincent Versace's Epson video.
Several of his remarks "The print is all" and "Photography is about the print"
Then you have the other side of the street. A good example the highly respected Michael Erlewine. (Google for his storied life)
He has a very good article on DPreview on shooting with the new Zeiss 55 Otus.
It is in that article or another one of his that someone asks about how he is printing these works of art.
His response, "I do not print anything, never have". I think I read back over that at least 2 or 3 times as it had to be a mistake.
I just could not image someone with his photographic talents not printing. He is taking all these wonderful photographs to print isn't he? I guess not.
Then again I am way more passonate about printing and mounting. (30 hanging in house and 100 (Just recounted,yikes!) in my Studio/Gallery)
When I am out shooting locally and I feel that I have some special shots I pack up early and head back to the print studio.
I just cannot wait to see what these look like as prints. Each to his own I guess and thats what makes the world go round.

And what are my kids going to do with those 130 prints when I leave this earth.
Probably keep a couple and chuck the rest. Sigh...
« Last Edit: January 12, 2014, 10:00:04 am by Dan Berg »
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HSakols

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Re: If you don't print, then what do you leave behind?
« Reply #56 on: January 12, 2014, 09:26:00 am »

I'm getting a bit antsy because I haven't printed anything since last spring.  However, I'm in the process of cleaning up my small studio to get ready to start again.  It has become sort of ritualistic.  I organize and clean all my flat surfaces so that I have room to admire my work and that of a good friend. In my own home I have very few of my prints because I just don't have the space (about 650 sq. ft) and I like collecting work of other local artists. I do however, have a very nice map cabinet that I store my matted prints.  I just got back one of my all time favorite framed prints from a show that I ended up giving to a close friend as a wedding gift.  I've definitely questioned why I do this to myself, but I imagine it is better than doing crack.  I brought this up to a photographer friend and his response was just be glad your not into large sailboats.  Everyone got to do something.

Regarding Rob's comments of the golden age of the sixties, I didn't come to age until the 80's and always felt a bit let down about what my generation had to offer other than the mullet. 
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Rob C

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Re: If you don't print, then what do you leave behind?
« Reply #57 on: January 12, 2014, 09:39:19 am »

Maybe many of us feel that the buzz today is all in the shooting... I can understand that, and without a specific commission, why spend money where you don't have to spend it? You got the shot; move on to the next.

Digital processing/printing doesn't remotely provide the kick that wet b/w (in particular - even exclusively, I guess) used to offer me; it's all so mechanical, and you can go on forever changing this, that and the other. Wet was visceral where digital is not. To be blunt about it, I can understand perfectly why digital print making has reduced the perceived skills in making, and, consequently, the values intrinsic in printed images. I suspect that the old gallery concept of demanding and valuing silver print well above digital exists not simply as a marketing device, but because it's a recognition of those different, generally perceived values. The art-buying market isn't always wrong.

Rob C

Peter McLennan

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Re: If you don't print, then what do you leave behind?
« Reply #58 on: January 12, 2014, 01:38:44 pm »

Rob, I think it's not so much that the skills have lessened, it's just that they've changed.  In fact, I believe that photography is far more skill-demanding now than those physical days.  Granted, chemical-darkroom printing was more hands-on, but I'm glad to say goodbye to the visceral aspects of noisy print washers, exhausted developer disposal and the smell of sodium thiosulfate.

Today, the skills are far more complex, esoteric and intellectually demanding than rubber gloves, fluid ounces and degrees Fahrenheit.  And the positive results are obvious.  High technologies have brought about The Golden Age of Photography.  Witness the astonishing increase in novel, creative, quality imagery available to a global audience in ways unimaginable by those of us who once laboured in dim orange light.

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Rob C

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Re: If you don't print, then what do you leave behind?
« Reply #59 on: January 12, 2014, 03:11:22 pm »

Rob, I think it's not so much that the skills have lessened, it's just that they've changed.  In fact, I believe that photography is far more skill-demanding now than those physical days.  Granted, chemical-darkroom printing was more hands-on, but I'm glad to say goodbye to the visceral aspects of noisy print washers, exhausted developer disposal and the smell of sodium thiosulfate.

Today, the skills are far more complex, esoteric and intellectually demanding than rubber gloves, fluid ounces and degrees Fahrenheit.  And the positive results are obvious.  High technologies have brought about The Golden Age of Photography.  Witness the astonishing increase in novel, creative, quality imagery available to a global audience in ways unimaginable by those of us who once laboured in dim orange light.




I wish that I could agree with you, Peter, but I can't.

Your version of Golden Age isn't the one I'm able to recognize at all. I lived one to the full most of my life and now experience the later concept; I find very little intellectual similarity at all, and doubt very much that I would consider 'higher technologies' as bringing any great gifts other than easy access for a mass market of snappers...

In my view, photography has not progressed: it has simply led to a highly complex mundanity where original thinking has been usurped by technical tricks that are nothing more than that: special effects. Even in movies, those now bore audiences to death.

If there is one great positive in digital, for me, it's that I can now shoot cheaply. Some trade for the rest that I think lost.

To paraphrase something that Walter wrote recently: for those with the ability, the means to achieve things were ever there.

Rob C
« Last Edit: January 12, 2014, 03:14:41 pm by Rob C »
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