Photoshop: A case of malfunction?

[Dragan Novakovic]

I'm trying to improve my images by doging and burning but am hopelessly suck on two points at the very beginning.

1. Dodge and burn tools problem. My Photoshop guide says: 'As long as you hold down the mouse button, the effect [of dodging/burning] will not accumulate no matter how many times the mouse pointer passes over a particular area'.

Well, in my case this isn't so. With exposures of about 10% and less, the effect does visibly accumulate and as the exposure decreases it is necessary to pass many times over the same area to achieve a uniform effect. Also, if I set the exposure at, say, 5% (brush Hardness 100%) and click once, I get a perfect even circle; but as soon as I move the mouse and draw a random shape with the same settings, the effect increases dramatically, with the front and end points of the shape showing a distinct penumbra and any overlapping portions looking lighter/darker than the rest. By contrast, both the Brush Tool and the Gimp work like a charm.

2. Separate layer visibility problem. If I try to do my dodging/burning on a separate layer (New Layer, Mode = Overlay, checkbox enabled), I can't see any effect of what I'm doing on the image regardless of the exposure setting although every modification is registered on the layer thumbnail. This goes for the Dodge Tool, Burn Tool and Brush Tool alike.

Thanks for your replies.

[stamper]

 The brush should not be 100% hardness but should be 100% feathered.
(New Layer, Mode = Overlay, checkbox enabled) isn't correct either. The layer should be a copy of the layer beneath. I use a duplicate of the background layer, blend normal. You may have read about an older method that uses the overlay method with a normal brush. The two ideas are different.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Which version of Photoshop?

[Dragan Novakovic]

I always set the brush hardness at 0% and only gave the 100% hardness example because the problem is more easily seen when using that setting.

The separate layer technique for non-destructive dodging and burning I'm trying to use is apparently very popular. It is recommended by Tim Grey, amongst many others, in his "Photoshop CS4 Wrokflow" from which I quote in my post. Here is another link that recommends and explains it: http://www.photoshopessentials.com/photo-editing/dodge-burn/.

[Dragan Novakovic]

Which version of Photoshop?

CS3, CS4, CS5, doesn't matter.

[mdarnton]

I don't ever burn and dodge at all. I make careful selections of the areas I want to change, feather appropriately, and pull up, depending on the situation, brightness/contrast, curves, or levels and make the changes there.

The advantage is that you can manipulate both contrast and brightness at the same time for a more sophisticated result. For instance, on this one I selected the entire background, then lowered the white point in curves (with an additional point somewhere in the middle to keep the darkest spots from getting any darker), simultaneously darkening the background and lowering the contrast at the same time. I did almost the same thing with the scarf, which was tending towards blown out when I had the skin tones as I wanted them. I always do these adjustments as adjustment layers, in case I change my mind later.


Annie by Michael Darnton, on Flickr

[Dragan Novakovic]

A picture is worth a thousand words...

Top row: Photoshop Burn Tool, Hardness 100%, Exposure 8%. Please note the tone difference between the circle and the shape as well as the build-up effect in the latter.

Bottom row: Photoshop Brush Tool, same settings, no tone difference. The Gimp burn and brush tools also give no problem.

[Arlen]

I'm trying to improve my images by doging and burning but am hopelessly suck on two points at the very beginning.

1. Dodge and burn tools problem. My Photoshop guide says: 'As long as you hold down the mouse button, the effect [of dodging/burning] will not accumulate no matter how many times the mouse pointer passes over a particular area'.

Well, in my case this isn't so. With exposures of about 10% and less, the effect does visibly accumulate and as the exposure decreases it is necessary to pass many times over the same area to achieve a uniform effect. Also, if I set the exposure at, say, 5% (brush Hardness 100%) and click once, I get a perfect even circle; but as soon as I move the mouse and draw a random shape with the same settings, the effect increases dramatically, with the front and end points of the shape showing a distinct penumbra and any overlapping portions looking lighter/darker than the rest. By contrast, both the Brush Tool and the Gimp work like a charm.

2. Separate layer visibility problem. If I try to do my dodging/burning on a separate layer (New Layer, Mode = Overlay, checkbox enabled), I can't see any effect of what I'm doing on the image regardless of the exposure setting although every modification is registered on the layer thumbnail. This goes for the Dodge Tool, Burn Tool and Brush Tool alike.

Thanks for your replies.

1. I believe that the quote you gave applies only to the brush tool (and then only in certain circumstances, with appropriate settings of Opacity and Flow, described below), and not to the burn and dodge tools. The burn and dodge tools use Exposure, which is a combination of Opacity and Flow. With the burn and dodge tools, I don't know of a way to prevent build-up as you are seeing.

2. The burn and dodge tools don't work when using this technique; they do nothing on the overlay/gray-filled layer. You have to use the brush tools; black to burn, white to dodge. If you set Flow = 100%, you will get no build-up with repeated passes while holding the down the mouse key; the amount you see will be whatever you set Opacity to. I think this is what you are trying to do. If you do it the opposite way (setting Opacity = 100%, but Flow at some lower value), then you will get the effect you are seeing now:  build-up with multiple passes over the same area during a single mouse click.  For fuller explanations, see for example the section "The Opacity Slider/Selection Box" on this web page, and the "Opacity, Flow and Airbrush" on this one.


Edit:  I see now that you linked to a page which covers the same ground as the technique that I described in (2) above. If you are doing it like that, and it isn't working, then something else is wrong somewhere. It should work. (Note that if you use a soft brush, with any of these techniques, the effect will build up gradually from the center to the periphery of the brush circle as you hold down the mouse button. Edit of the edit:  But only if the airbrush is turned on. See Jeff's comment below.)

[Dragan Novakovic]

1. I believe that the quote you gave applies only to the brush tool (and then only in certain circumstances, with appropriate settings of Opacity and Flow, described below), and not to the burn and dodge tools. The burn and dodge tools use Exposure, which is a combination of Opacity and Flow. With the burn and dodge tools, I don't know of a way to prevent build-up as you are seeing.

2. The burn and dodge tools don't work when using this technique; they do nothing on the overlay/gray-filled layer. You have to use the brush tools; black to burn, white to dodge. If you set Flow = 100%, you will get no build-up with repeated passes while holding the down the mouse key; the amount you see will be whatever you set Opacity to. I think this is what you are trying to do. If you do it the opposite way (setting Opacity = 100%, but Flow at some lower value), then you will get the effect you are seeing now:  build-up with multiple passes over the same area during a single mouse click.  For fuller explanations, see for example the section "The Opacity Slider/Selection Box" on this web page, and the "Opacity, Flow and Airbrush" on this one.


Edit:  I see now that you linked to a page which covers the same ground as the technique that I described in (2) above. If you are doing it like that, and it isn't working, then something else is wrong somewhere. It should work. (Note that if you use a soft brush, with any of these techniques, the effect will build up gradually from the center to the periphery of the brush circle as you hold down the mouse button.)

1. You may well be right that a uniform effect can only be achieved by using the Brush Tool, though it's a pity that in that case one must do without the very useful highlights/midtones/shadows option available with the dodge and burn tools. I'm still puzzled, though, that I get no build-up effect when using the Gimp burn and dodge tools while being able to retain the highlights/midtones/shadows option. Could it be that my Photoshop settings are not right?

2. I accept that the dodge and burn tools don't work when using this technique. But, as I've already pointed out, my problem here is that even when using the Brush Tool I see no effect of dodging/burning on the image at all (only on the layer thumbnail) even at 100% Opacity and 100% Flow. It's this inability to use the straightforward overlay/gray-filled layer technique that's actually driving me mad and forcing me to use the Brush Tool on background copies.

Edit: Yes, I too have a feeling that something else is wrong somewhere but I just can't put my finger on it.

Thanks for the useful links and your time and trouble!

[Schewe]

Edit: Yes, I too have a feeling that something else is wrong somewhere but I just can't put my finger on it.

Do you have the option to use airbrush build up on or off? If it's on, the longer you press the cursor, the more buildup you'll get. With it off, you won't get any buildup...

It's the little airbrush thingie in the tool option to the right of the Exposure setting.

[Redcrown]

When you are brush painting low opacity black & white on a 50% gray layer, it's more common the set the layer to Soft Light mode, not Overlay. Soft Light gives better control and far less color/hue shifts.

As for your claim that the D&B effect shows on the layer thumbnail but not the actual image, that's definitely odd and not right. You've got something off in your process. Sorry I can't guess what it is. Well, one guess anyway, make sure your brush is in normal mode?

One tip, instead of brush painting black or white at low opacity and trying to control "build up", try using a gray brush at 100% opacity. In the Swatches pallet you've got settings for 10% to 95% gray. Pick something less than 50% to dodge, greater than 50% to burn.

Another tip, you can limit the 50% gray layer painting to highlights, midtones, or shadows using a luminosity mask. In fact, you can have much more control than the actual Dodge & Burn tools offer. Lot's of free actions and tutorials available on creating luminosity masks. Add the desired mask to your 50% gray layer and paint away. Changes will apply only to the tonal range your mask allows.

[Dragan Novakovic]

Do you have the option to use airbrush build up on or off? If it's on, the longer you press the cursor, the more buildup you'll get. With it off, you won't get any buildup...

It's the little airbrush thingie in the tool option to the right of the Exposure setting.

I do have this option and I keep it turned off.

[Dragan Novakovic]

When you are brush painting low opacity black & white on a 50% gray layer, it's more common the set the layer to Soft Light mode, not Overlay. Soft Light gives better control and far less color/hue shifts.

I've tried using Soft Light mode too but it doesn't show either. The only modes that show the effect while I paint are Hard Light, Linear Light and Pin Light. Curiously enough, when I turn on any of these modes, the hitherto invisible effects of painting in Overlay and Soft Light modes suddenly become visible. Beats me.

Thanks for the tips.