Why does Adobe hate non-Americans so much?

[Chris Pollock]

Oh, man! So many brilliant business-strategy ideas in this thread! I am sure Microsoft talent acquisition experts are trying to locate you as we speak. In the meantime, or if that does not pan out, why don't you try to participate in the "Are You Smarter Than a Fifth Grader" show?

Since you're apparently the only person here who knows anything about business and economics, perhaps you'll be kind enough to share some of your knowledge with the rest of us. I'd be interested to read your opinion on the following questions:

Why does an apparently highly profitable product such as Photoshop have no close competition? Why hasn't the potential for profit motivated effective rivals to join the market?

Why can't Adobe get away with charging the same prices in America that they do in Britain, Japan, and Australia? (I haven't researched prices elsewhere, but maybe you'd care to do so?) What are the American people doing to force Adobe to charge them less than people in other countries are obliged to pay? I'm sure most non-Americans would love to know the answer to this question. I think we should find out what the American people are doing, and do the same thing ourselves.

[Farmer]

Chris, yes, free support for the most part, although there are obviously paid-for agreements with larger corporates or those requiring additional support and the like.

Support even includes websites, user forums, and so on.

[Chris Pollock]

BTW, I might have missed it somewhere but how does the cost of Photoshop cloud differ globally?

Here in Australia it's $62.99 a month, or about 26% more than the $49.99 US price. In Britain it's £46.88 (50% markup), and in Japan it's advertised as "from 5,000 yen a month" (24% markup). I can't be bothered finding out what the "from" means. These are still big markups compared to the US, but a lot more reasonable than the Photoshop upgrade prices.

I'm guessing that Adobe would like to move customers to a subscription pricing system. It has the obvious advantage of guaranteeing a steady income stream as long as people want to use their software. If people buy the software, they can choose to forgo future upgrades if they don't need the new features. If they rent the software, they lose this option.

For the same reason that subscription pricing is good for the vendor, it's bad for the customer. It commits you to paying every month in perpetuity, even if Adobe never add a new feature that you want. If Adobe decide to raise the price, you have no option but to pay up or lose the ability to access the data that you saved in Adobe formats.

I would never even consider renting software.

[Justinr]

Exactly my point.  If MS were to provide the level of support to which we are accustomed for Windows or Office or the like, it would cost a fortune.

I doubt that I have ever had to trouble MS more than two, maybe three times for support on any product. With Expression they merely provide a forum the regular members of which claim they are not paid by MS. How much is that costing them?

[Justinr]

Here in Australia it's $62.99 a month, or about 26% more than the $49.99 US price. In Britain it's £46.88 (50% markup), and in Japan it's advertised as "from 5,000 yen a month" (24% markup). I can't be bothered finding out what the "from" means. These are still big markups compared to the US, but a lot more reasonable than the Photoshop upgrade prices.

I'm guessing that Adobe would like to move customers to a subscription pricing system. It has the obvious advantage of guaranteeing a steady income stream as long as people want to use their software. If people buy the software, they can choose to forgo future upgrades if they don't need the new features. If they rent the software, they lose this option.

For the same reason that subscription pricing is good for the vendor, it's bad for the customer. It commits you to paying every month in perpetuity, even if Adobe never add a new feature that you want. If Adobe decide to raise the price, you have no option but to pay up or lose the ability to access the data that you saved in Adobe formats.

I would never even consider renting software.

In Ireland it's €62 ($79) per month if you sign up for a year or €88 on a month by month basis which equates to $112 or over twice the US price!

It seems that old habits die hard.

[graeme]

Hi Keith

Had a look at Lightroom over on the other section of LuLa; it sure appears to have problems - one of them, for me, being the need for a much more powerful computer! Guess I'll get along without correcting any verticals...


Oh - a new art gallery opened here on Sunday - run by the front lady who ran the big one here that was closed down recently because the owners realised that there were more profitable things to do with property. We had a chat - something may come from it at some time. At least we know each other from the old gallery, so it's not cold calling!


;-)

Rob C

Hi Rob

You might be able to sort out your verticals using Pshops Crop Tool. I think it worked in PS6. Make sure you have the 'Perspective' box checked.

Tutorial here ( No 2. Perspective Crop ):

http://digital-photography-school.com/5-secrets-of-the-photoshop-crop-tool

If this doesn't work in PS6 check out the Edit - Transform - Distort or Perspective options.

Graeme

[Farmer]

For those quoting "overseas" pricing, what is the tax included?  (the US price is without tax).  Would be a useful comparison this way.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

...What are the American people doing to force Adobe to charge them less than people in other countries are obliged to pay?..,

You mean apart from having created a 300-million single market?

P.S. They are not obliged to pay

[Justinr]

Hi Keith

Had a look at Lightroom over on the other section of LuLa; it sure appears to have problems - one of them, for me, being the need for a much more powerful computer! Guess I'll get along without correcting any verticals...


Oh - a new art gallery opened here on Sunday - run by the front lady who ran the big one here that was closed down recently because the owners realised that there were more profitable things to do with property. We had a chat - something may come from it at some time. At least we know each other from the old gallery, so it's not cold calling!

;-)

Rob C

I to had a look to see if Lightroom would suit my out of studio jobs and was tempted to go for it but then I came across the users comments on dpreview - http://www.dpreview.com and went for Fastone instead which has come  a long way of late. Not sure whether it's entirely free though as the last download just stopped working within a couple of months as did a noise reduction tool from the same stable. I'm wondering if a donation would have made the difference although nothing is stated. If it works for me than I will, the noise reduction item didn't.

[Rob C]

Hi Rob

You might be able to sort out your verticals using Pshops Crop Tool. I think it worked in PS6. Make sure you have the 'Perspective' box checked.

Tutorial here ( No 2. Perspective Crop ):

http://digital-photography-school.com/5-secrets-of-the-photoshop-crop-tool

If this doesn't work in PS6 check out the Edit - Transform - Distort or Perspective options.

Graeme

Thank you, Graeme, I'll have a look at that and see what happens!

Rob C

[Chris Pollock]

You mean apart from having created a 300-million single market?

Yes, but I'm a little vague on how the fact that there are 300 million people in America forces Adobe to charge them a lower price. Note that there are 120 million or so people in Japan, but their price isn't that different to Australia's or Britain's. Could you please provide a little detail on the causative mechanism?

I'd also like to remind you that this whole "single market" thing is a fantasy anyway - the whole world is a single market for downloaded software, unless companies deliberately take steps to break it up.

[Chris Pollock]

For those quoting "overseas" pricing, what is the tax included?  (the US price is without tax).  Would be a useful comparison this way.

Today I investigated Adobe's Australian store more closely, and discovered that if you choose the download rather than physical delivery, they can somehow avoid charging GST, so the price drops to $307, which is the same price as the CS4 to CS5 upgrade. This doesn't really weaken my complaint about price gouging however, because the price is still 54% more than in the US, and Adobe can no longer use tax as a partial justification. (In fact the download price would be 70 cents more than physical delivery if you added the tax back on.)

BTW, I noticed that the Australian site still has "Preorder" for CS6, but the US site has "Buy". They probably just forgot to change it.

To give Adobe some credit, I noticed that a full copy of Lightroom 4 can be downloaded for $187, a markup of about 25% over the US price of $149. I think this is bordering on reasonable, if we give Adobe the benefit of the doubt. You get 30% off Lightroom if you also buy a Photoshop CS6 upgrade, which comes to $437.90 for both programs.

It does seem strange that Adobe give a better deal on the cheaper product. You'd think it would make more sense to steer people towards the more expensive option. I guess their marketing people thought the Photoshop market is less price-sensitive.

I didn't research the deals in other countries for lack of time. It's easy enough for any interested person to do.

[Chris Pollock]

I've been trying to download a trial copy of Lightroom, but nothing is happening. I hope someone at Adobe hasn't noticed this thread and blocked my access as punishment.

[Rob C]

Chris, before you do, have you read any of the posts over in the specialist/dedicated threads for Lightroom here in LuLa?

Might be worth paying for the real PS after all... if you live in the States!

;-)

Rob C

[john beardsworth]

And make sure you balance reading those posts with the fact that it's not the majority experience....

[RSL]

They are not obliged to pay

Ah ha! A fellow free-marketer. Join me, Slobodan, in raising a glass to the memory of Adam Smith. (Clink!)

[stamper]

Not one of Scotland's finest. If you want to see his grave it is in a church yard just off the Royal mile in Edinburgh.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/2009/02/28/fury-as-vandals-wreck-graves-at-historic-royal-mile-kirkyard-86908-21159078/

Pity he came into this world.

[RSL]

I don't know about one of Scotland's finest, Stamper, but certainly one of the world's finest. Smith could see what actually was happening, beyond the fog of academic theories that simply "must" be true, since they're so beautiful.

[Rob C]

I have a long-standing distrust of the beautiful: it often ends up concealing a cesspit. Which has me thinking about the difference (if any) between weeds and flowers.

However, as a photographer, I'm concerned with surfaces, and so I feel no guilt associated with what I sometimes manage to achieve.

Beauty is also the principle motivator in many lives. It causes pairings, jealousies, weddings, divorces and murders and probably contributes highly to the birthrate. (Though I don't suppose looking around in general would support the latter point - more the prize should be awarded to accident or desperation.) Beauty is great just as long as you allow her to remain a quest rather than a reality, a realisation, because then you can get too close and personal and discover much you didn't really want to know. Isn't the hamadryad, the king cobra a beautiful creature?

Rob C

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Not one of Scotland's finest.... Pity he came into this world.

Stamper, that's a new low, even for the ultra-left

EDIT: Especially taking into account that Adam Smith, together with David Ricardo, is considered one of the "three sources and three components" of Marxism. I thought you, of all people, would appreciate that a bit more.