what mamiya for leaf aptus II 12

[RomanN.]

I am new in mamiya system- i get a leaf aptus II 12 and will use it mostly with my cambo and arca swiss but I am looking also for a mamiya 645 camera. I never worked with mamiya, always hasselblad V and H and would know what deferences are between the Mamiya AFD, AFDII and III. Wich one do I need and what lenses can work well with my 80 mln back. I look for 80 mm and one longer portrait lens 120-210 mm. how are the zoom lenses? does it make sense to look for mamiya RZ II?
I dont want to buy new system- after getting the back it will not be possible to me- I look for cheap and good working solution. I dont make fast shootings, slow work but the lenses must be good.
thanks for help in advance.
roman

[EricWHiss]

I don't think you could get any cheaper than the RZ and its pretty decent too.

[mediumcool]

I am new in mamiya system- i get a leaf aptus II 12 and will use it mostly with my cambo and arca swiss but I am looking also for a mamiya 645 camera. I never worked with mamiya, always hasselblad V and H and would know what deferences are between the Mamiya AFD, AFDII and III. Wich one do I need and what lenses can work well with my 80 mln back. I look for 80 mm and one longer portrait lens 120-210 mm. how are the zoom lenses? does it make sense to look for mamiya RZ II?
I dont want to buy new system- after getting the back it will not be possible to me- I look for cheap and good working solution. I dont make fast shootings, slow work but the lenses must be good.
thanks for help in advance.
roman

Mamiya 645s get faster with each iteration; I have a 645AFD that I am very happy with, but newer models have a more speedy shutter response (mine does a kind of slow whoosh when fired—not good for active babies or wildlife  ) and they have faster AF too.

All my lenses are from the older manual N series, from the 35mm f3.5 (notorious distortion and variability of sharpness), the 50mm f4 shift (excellent lens with a touch of barrel distortion), the 80mm f4 macro (excellent), the 110mm f2.8 (very good but wiry bokeh), and the 210mm f4 (excellent). There is also a 28mm AF that can be very good (variations here too, apparently) but it is expensive. Other well-regarded Mamiya glass includes the 120mm f4 Macro, and the 150mm f2.8 in both AF and manual focus models (both considered two of the best MF lenses on any platform), and the 200 f2.8 (MF only) and the Apo 300s are very good to superb as well. I haven’t used it, but the 55mm f2.8 has its fans too.

You will find the AFDs rather more portable than the RZ; I can shoot at 1/125 and 1/250 hand-held with the 645AFD, but would not attempt this on an RZ. HTH

[mediumcool]

Whoops; missed the question about zooms. The best of the three zooms appears to be the 75–150mm. I find them bulky and slow, but … 

[Brian Hirschfeld]

I was going to say if you had hasselblad H or V then you could just get the mount switched (about 3k I think) and get a different mount adapter for your cambo (I believe they sell those right) which would prob be cheaper then going into a new system. I believe all the AFD's will work with your back (correct me if I am wrong) but know that the AFDiii will since many people keep those as backups to their 645DF since they take the same lenses and backs and AFDiii's go for fairly cheap.

All the Mamiya lenses are relatively cheap second hand in great condition on the whole. I have recently started purchasing M645 N glass like the excellent 150mm f/2.8N MF and 80mm f/1.9N as well as the 55mm and 150mm 3.5 N lenses. They are built amazingly well metal constructor, and what I could see with my IQ180 in basic testing I think that they may out preform their AF equivalents. Certainly with the Mamiya lenses there is a large amount of sample variation, I would say more so with the older AF lenses (I don't know if you can check by serial number but I am sure you can). There are some people who have bought multiple examples and tested them (since they are inexpensive and move fast enough that you can do this without taking too much of a loss) like Jack did over at Getdpi here: http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/lens-accessory-reviews/15710-mamiya-lens-overview.html - It seems like the zoom lenses seem to have some more sample variation but that just my impression from reading, in my experience my examples have been pretty good and i have always been happy, I used most of them on film and now on digital and have not compared them to other examples but have always been pleased with the results. If you are going to want to manual focus rather then use AF, I think the MF N lenses (which are later, although I believe many are repackaged or evolutions of the earlier C lenses). They are well built and feel great, and purpose built for manual focus, and I have not tested enough but believe that they may out preform the AF lenses which again could just be related to sample variation for my lenses, but we shall see.

As medium cool says, the APO's are amazing, some consider the 150mm f/2.8 to be in this series but I have never gotten a straight answer about that. I absolutely love my recently acquired 300mm f/2.8 APO but this is still one of the lenses which sells at a premium. I think the 55mm f/2.8N may be one of the sharpest lenses I have seen. and you can't forget the 50mm f/4 if you are going to want tilt shift and not willing to pay the premium for the Schneider. Also as he says the 75-150mm is the newest zoom and probably the best as he says, this is the one I have not used, but I can say that at least my 105-210mm f/4.5 ULD is great, and and I expect its largely because of the great glass in it.

Always heard a lot of good things about the RB / RZ and they each have their own qualities which are looked at in-depth all over the place. They are certainly inexpensive along with all of their lenses, even compared to the Mamiya AFD's and lenses. I would certainly consider this as an economic option, especially if the automation isn't a big deal which it seems like its not for you. Lots of great lenses to choose from, many focal lengths.

[mediumcool]

Brian makes some good points in his post, and I am reminded of another couple of differences between the 645 and 67 Mamiya cameras; the RZs have flash sync up to their highest shutter speeds, whereas the 645s have focal-plane shutters limited to 1/125 synchronisation. The other consideration is that the 645s go wider lenswise, but if you have wide lenses for your other cameras, this becomes less of a consideration.

Just make sure you get a ULD version of the 50mm if you decide on that and an RZ (the older non-ULD 50s barked!).

Finally, in my RB67 days, I owned a 140mm macro which was stupendously good, with floating elements controlled by a ring on the lens barrel. The other lenses I had at the time (50 and 90) were a bit ho-hum.

[sbernthal]

I think you asked which Mamiya 645, and not which Mamiya (RZ/RB etc.)

There are 4 generations of Mamiya 645 that will work with an Aptus.

AFD - I think too old and I would stay away from.
AFD II - OK, slow focus, no camera control from computer.
AFD III - good, OK focus, camera controls via tether.
DF - faster focus if you need it.

For me, also slow work, AFD III is good enough most of the time, and it is the best deal at pretty low cost if you can find it used.

As far as lenses, I think the "D" lenses give the best value, if you can find them used.
On a 80MP back, if you look at pixels, most of the older lenses will be less sharp than the back can resolve.
LS are lenses better but very expensive.

[gerald.d]

Just a slight correction to Brian's otherwise excellent and informative post.

The Mamiya 50mm f/4.0 that is mentioned is a shift lens only. It doesn't have tilt.

[mediumcool]

As medium cool says, the APO's [sic] are amazing …

mediumcool [note that it’s one word] did not use the word “amazing” anywhere in his post. It is a word to be used sparingly, with care … 

[RomanN.]

thanks for tte informations,
For Mamiya RZ I need an adapter- they seems to be expensive - do you have some places where I get get is cheap and good working?