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Author Topic: Simar p3-slr  (Read 7606 times)

David Cartwright

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Simar p3-slr
« on: April 25, 2012, 06:38:37 am »

Hi,

I'm not sure if this should be under "Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography" but get the feeling you folks can offer a better insight than most.

For a long time I have wanted to start using a technical camera, but have bulked at the cost of a digital back and the associated camera. I am starting to consider using a Sinar P3-slr together with my existing D700, with the aim to upgrade/suplement by existing Nikon kit with a D800 latter. I have been trying to find reviews of the p3-slr, but all I can find is lots of Sinar marketing material.

Has anyone out there ever seen/used one of these setups? Is it any good? I am completely barking, or even barking up the wrong tree to consider the eventual p3-slr witha D800 as a useful technical setup for still-life/landscape?

Sorry if this posted in the wrong place, or been discussed before. (I did try searching for the p3-slr but found nothing).

Thanks

David.
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nazdravanul

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Re: Simar p3-slr
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2012, 07:55:54 am »

I'm also interested on first hand experiences with the p3-slr.
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Dick Roadnight

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Re: Simar p3-slr
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2012, 10:05:20 am »

Hi,

I'm not sure if this should be under "Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography" but get the feeling you folks can offer a better insight than most.

For a long time I have wanted to start using a technical camera, but have bulked at the cost of a digital back and the associated camera. I am starting to consider using a Sinar P3-slr together with my existing D700, with the aim to upgrade/suplement by existing Nikon kit with a D800 latter. I have been trying to find reviews of the p3-slr, but all I can find is lots of Sinar marketing material.

Has anyone out there ever seen/used one of these setups? Is it any good? I am completely barking, or even barking up the wrong tree to consider the eventual p3-slr witha D800 as a useful technical setup for still-life/landscape?

Sorry if this posted in the wrong place, or been discussed before. (I did try searching for the p3-slr but found nothing).

Thanks

David.

Using a small format camera on a proper view camera would be great for low-res macro.

I have a V-sys Hasselblad adapter for my P2... adds a viewfinder to a tech cam.

I could use my Hasselblad H4D-60 on the back of a P3/2 for "daylight live view"... but not for wide angle... but for studio I would tether and use live view on the Mac.
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Hasselblad H4, Sinar P3 monorail view camera, Schneider Apo-digitar lenses

yaya

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Re: Simar p3-slr
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2012, 04:35:20 pm »

Hi,

I'm not sure if this should be under "Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography" but get the feeling you folks can offer a better insight than most.

For a long time I have wanted to start using a technical camera, but have bulked at the cost of a digital back and the associated camera. I am starting to consider using a Sinar P3-slr together with my existing D700, with the aim to upgrade/suplement by existing Nikon kit with a D800 latter. I have been trying to find reviews of the p3-slr, but all I can find is lots of Sinar marketing material.

Has anyone out there ever seen/used one of these setups? Is it any good? I am completely barking, or even barking up the wrong tree to consider the eventual p3-slr witha D800 as a useful technical setup for still-life/landscape?

Sorry if this posted in the wrong place, or been discussed before. (I did try searching for the p3-slr but found nothing).

Thanks

David.

I do not know anyone who uses a P3 with an SLR but it looks like a bit of an overkill to me. Something like the Cambo X2-PRO might make more sense and work with small format SLRs as well and Mamiya 645 SLRs
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David Cartwright

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Re: Simar p3-slr
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2012, 05:16:03 pm »

Hi thanks pointer to the Cambo system, I wasn't aware of this. It will give me something else to look into. Have you had any experience, or know anyone that uses/has used one at all?

Once again, many thanks for the input it's much appreciated.

David.
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Brian Hirschfeld

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Re: Simar p3-slr
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2012, 05:29:09 pm »

Having never used or touched one, I can only comment on the philosophy and agree with the above statement that it may be "over-kill" I simply think while you may gain the benefits of tilt and shifting and other movements unless this is what you are after, I think especially with lower resolution cameras (excluding d800 and d3x), there will be no significant difference in image quality and a significant difference is price and usability of large format lenses. I think unless you have specific requirements in terms of movements, or something like macro it certainly is far more cumbersome then it is worth.

At the same time I would ask, if you require movements or are doing dedicated macro, why couldn't you have a more specific system, possibly a digital back, but certainly a view or technical camera aside from your DSLR.

Then to to the point of the Cambo system, it seems to offer less in terms of movements and view camera like performance, which seemingly makes it a more usable option in terms of workflow, but still I don't think you'll get any significantly noticeable difference in image quality (yes something like falloff in corners wide open) or performance and smaller apertures. I think the effort and expense for most applications outweighs the benefits which can be had to a lesser degree with more cost effective and less-effort solutions.
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yaya

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Re: Simar p3-slr
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2012, 05:34:11 pm »

Hi David, as you're in the UK you'd better speak to Mr. Cambo UK himself, Charles Woods as he knows many of the users personally
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henrikfoto

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Re: Simar p3-slr
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2012, 05:49:24 pm »

I use the Cambo X-2 Pro sometimes. It's nice and precise, but the bellow-system is a pain.
Also the attachment to the camera is not as tight as it should be.
The camera is pretty small and light, it is well made (exept for the bellow and the attachment)
and it is cheap compared to the P3..
With the Cambo X-2 pro you are also limited to lenses up to about 100-120 mm.

But the P3 is much much tighter, more precise, better buit and much better to handle.

These cameras are in totally different leagues. If the pricedifferent is not a problem, buy the Sinar!

Henrik

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David Cartwright

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Re: Simar p3-slr
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2012, 10:24:18 am »

Thanks for the pointers and the input, much appreciated.

David.
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Dick Roadnight

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Re: Simar p3-slr
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2012, 10:41:21 am »

With the Cambo X-2 pro you are also limited to lenses up to about 100-120 mm.

But the P3 is much much tighter, more precise, better buit and much better to handle.

These cameras are in totally different leagues. If the pricedifferent is not a problem, buy the Sinar!

Henrik


¿I thought that many people thought that the P3 was too sloppy to use (with wide lenses)?

I have a Sinar P, a P2 and a P3, all picked up on ebay (I converted the P3 from a P2).

I have ample extension for long lenses and macro, as I have 2 P2 to P3 conversion bellows, so I can extend the P3 by 1.2m with 2 P2 bellows.
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CamboUK

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Re: Simar p3-slr
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2012, 04:49:30 am »

Hi David,

Cambo developed the Ultima camera platform - along time ago... This is modular system
enabling you to use 4x5 film (yes film!) 2x3 for Digital backs and 35 for DSLR. If you're
looking for a high-end camera that you can apply movement with a DSLR and move to a
DCB back later you should look at the Ultima and try it out.

Here are the links;
http://www.cambo.com/Html/products_photo/set01/english/internet/Group28.html
http://www.cambo.com/Html/products_photo/set01/english/internet/Group29.html

To complement the system there are a wide range of sliding and stitching backs available;
http://www.cambo.com/Html/products_photo/set01/english/internet/Group31.html

If your requirement is to use DSLR with movement, the X2Pro offers front standard movement;
http://www.cambo.com/Html/products_photo/set01/english/internet/Group735.html

There is a macro option available for the X2Pro, you can use Schneider, Rodenstock, Mamiya RB/RZ
and Hasselblad (500) lenses. You can also use a Leaf or Phase DCB - the results I have seen are
really fantastic. A high-end jewellery and watch photographer uses the X2Pro with a P45 and Rollei
electronic shutter controlled lenses - he produces very fine detail for his clients and has no complaints
using the configuration.

The X2Pro has just been tested by Adam Woolfitt this month - he is very impressed with the kit and
wants to get his hands on it again when the D800 and D4 is readily available to him.

Of course, we now have videographers using the X2Pro with Canon and Nikon HDSLR, it really is a very
adaptable piece of kit..

I'm based in the UK, we will have an office open here very soon where you can hire before you buy (UK
only) you're welcome to contact me directly. In the meantime, thanks for reading this and for Luminous
Landscape for the forum.

Best regards,
Charles.
cambouk@gmail.com
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K.C.

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Re: Simar p3-slr
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2012, 02:58:08 am »

Horseman also makes a great system for DSLR.

http://www.komamura.co.jp/e/VCCpro/index.html
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geesbert

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Re: Simar p3-slr
« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2012, 05:30:32 am »

I think I used or tried intensively nearly every tilt/shift option option available for dslr:

- Canon's TSE lenses
- a Linhof 679 adapted to Canon
- a mirex Tilt/Shift adapter with Mamyia Glass
- a X2pro with LF lenses
- a Mamiya Tilt Shift Bellows with LF lenses
- The Zörk multifocus system with Rodagon lenses
- a Sinar P (don't remember which)
- Hartblei

My Work is depending 90% on movements, but I had to realise, that non of the alternative systems offer any real advantage over the TSE lenses, that are worth the massive hassle and weight. The mirrorbox of a DSLR kills most extreme movements and as the centre of rotation of the sensor(=back standard) is careening too much, stronger movements need adjustments of the whole assembly. Only front tilts are rather easy.
The most capable system I used was the Linhof, but it was huge, heavy and slow, but the Addition of the Mirex allowed to compensate for the depth of the mirrorbox.


Second best is the Mamyia Tilt Shift Bellows, I have one adapted to Canon lying around, if anyone is interested send me a message


My Advice for anyone wanting movements on a DSLR is a Canon or Nikon with T/S lenses and an Arca Cube or Photoclam Multiflex, tethered to a laptop.

Canon's 17mm and new 24mm TSE are unbelievable good, the 45 is mediocre  and the 90mm is acceptable, but falls off in short distances. I am eagerly awaiting a replacement of the two latter ones, but I fear it won't happen for a while.

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David Cartwright

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Re: Simar p3-slr
« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2012, 11:40:26 am »

Thanks, I appreciate your thoughts and taking the time to reply.

David.
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Rod.Klukas

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Re: Simar p3-slr
« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2012, 02:41:39 pm »

Arca-Swiss offers a lightweight, precise, geared camera for Dslr's as well.  The DSLR 2.
I comes with bellows for Canon or Nikon and an L bracket, which can be used elsewhere without the camera.
The body is fully geared and works extremely precisely.
It can also be easily be converted to MF should one wish to at a later date.

Rod
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henrikfoto

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Re: Simar p3-slr
« Reply #15 on: May 03, 2012, 03:33:46 am »

Arca-Swiss offers a lightweight, precise, geared camera for Dslr's as well.  The DSLR 2.
I comes with bellows for Canon or Nikon and an L bracket, which can be used elsewhere without the camera.
The body is fully geared and works extremely precisely.
It can also be easily be converted to MF should one wish to at a later date.

Rod


Interesting!
Have never seen this before. Do you have a price for it?


Henrik
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Phil Indeblanc

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Re: Simar p3-slr
« Reply #16 on: May 08, 2012, 04:48:26 am »

For ultimate sharpness you will have issues with most lens's unless Digital. resolve power is dependent on Lpi.
Also you will see lots of the bellows

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