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Author Topic: Use Of Epson 3880 For Only Black-&-White Printing  (Read 8226 times)

JimAscher

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Use Of Epson 3880 For Only Black-&-White Printing
« on: April 24, 2012, 06:44:00 pm »

I print (only) black-and-white quite acceptably (for me) on my Epson 1400, using a profile on QTR similar to the Epson three-ink ABW process.  However, the 13-inch-width limitation of the 1400 I'm finding a bit cramping.  I wish to move to a 17-inch-wide printer, and the least expensive(!) option would seem to be the Epson 3880.  However, that printer accommodates eight (or nine) ink cartridges, at least five more than I really need.  Instead of having color hues in those extra five cartridges, can I duplicate some of my B&W tones in those extra cartridge locations and program through QTR alternate three-ink B&W printing combinations?  If not, then the 3880 is definitely far more machinery than I require, and at a considerable cost, to achieve 17-inch-wide prints.       
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AFairley

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Re: Use Of Epson 3880 For Only Black-&-White Printing
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2012, 07:52:53 pm »

I know absolutely nothing about Piezography but they claim to use up to 7 shades of black ink.  I'm sure others on the forum can give you more information.

http://shopping.netsuite.com/s.nl/c.362672/sc.15/category.39493/.f#p7TPMc1_3
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Ken Doo

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Re: Use Of Epson 3880 For Only Black-&-White Printing
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2012, 09:20:14 pm »

Jim,

I converted my old 9800 to a B&W K7 Piezography printer, glossy selenium inkset with a gloss optimizer applied through the printer after the initial printing.  Color prints are run through my 9900, but when possible, B&W images are through the 9800.  Great results and simply gorgeous B&W prints.

I've heard of issues with pizza wheel marks on the 3880 so would approach a K7 conversion with some hesitation.  The auto-switching printers do offer more flexibility with being able to print both matte and glossy B&W inksets, but in reality once you see the glossy inkset results, you'll probably only print with the glossy Pk shade 1 anyway.  Soon to be released piezography2 is another inkset to consider.

My advice would be to opt for at least a 48** or 78** series printer----which has the vacuum to hold the paper, avoiding any potential marks from the wheels on the smaller 3880.

See, www.piezography.com

ken

JohnBrew

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Re: Use Of Epson 3880 For Only Black-&-White Printing
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2012, 09:26:54 pm »

Jim, I've never had pizza wheel marks on any of my 3880 prints and I do probably 50% of my printing in bw. This might be more related to types of paper than anything else. I use Hahnemuhle papers for my fine art prints and Ilford GFS for small stuff. A long time ago I used the black inks from MLS and suffered clogs. But I realize (hope) things have changed to the better and I hear the inks from John Cone are really something special. However, I get terrific results just using the three black ink combo and different toning from Epson.
Good luck with your decision!

JimAscher

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Re: Use Of Epson 3880 For Only Black-&-White Printing
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2012, 09:58:23 pm »

While I'm tantalized by the prospect of using more than three tones of black (via Piezography), three tones have so far proved quite satisfactory for me.  However, maybe some day in the future I'll reconsider, and experiment further.  Thanks, guys.
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Ernst Dinkla

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Re: Use Of Epson 3880 For Only Black-&-White Printing
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2012, 03:49:45 am »

I print (only) black-and-white quite acceptably (for me) on my Epson 1400, using a profile on QTR similar to the Epson three-ink ABW process.  However, the 13-inch-width limitation of the 1400 I'm finding a bit cramping.  I wish to move to a 17-inch-wide printer, and the least expensive(!) option would seem to be the Epson 3880.  However, that printer accommodates eight (or nine) ink cartridges, at least five more than I really need.  Instead of having color hues in those extra five cartridges, can I duplicate some of my B&W tones in those extra cartridge locations and program through QTR alternate three-ink B&W printing combinations?  If not, then the 3880 is definitely far more machinery than I require, and at a considerable cost, to achieve 17-inch-wide prints.       

For similar reasons and speed I had my eyes on the Canon iPF510, the CAD version of the iPF5100 and with just one head where the iPF5100 has two. It has a typical CAD inkset with two channels running a matte pigment black and the rest CMYK dye. The head type is however the same. I have asked Bowhaus whether they could support it in their Canon B&W RIP but never got an answer back. It should run a 5 ink B&W ink set, possibly 6. It has a 4 picoliter droplet and it is fast. There are more wide Canon models like that.

There was a time when we would ask for more ink channels and we got them and they are excellent. But in case your work is not making full use of all the channels you face issues like pigment ink settling, expired inks in the channels not in use and the printer giving errors on colors you actually do not need. The older Epson wide formats with 6 or 7 channels are fading away and are slow. HP has some older types 6 channel, 4 picoliter dye models that can be changed but there is no nice alternative driver for B&W and they are slow.

Paul Roark at the Digital B&W list must have an ink set for the 3880 that can have two channels per ink. Depending on what you need in gloss and/or matte it could be a 3 or 4 "quad" set.  For example a HP Vivera PK black that gives a neutral set diluted with an ink medium. I am using a similar mix in a HP office printer as a trial. Heads cope and I use curves for partitioning.


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Light Seeker

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Re: Use Of Epson 3880 For Only Black-&-White Printing
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2012, 05:43:46 pm »

Paul Roark at the Digital B&W list must have an ink set for the 3880 that can have two channels per ink. Depending on what you need in gloss and/or matte it could be a 3 or 4 "quad" set.

I'm glad you mentioned Paul Roark. Visiting the black & white section of his site (http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/) would IMHO be worthwhile time spent for the OP. Paul's approaches and philosophy are different than Jon Cone's, so getting familiar with them would provide a broader view.

For example a HP Vivera PK black that gives a neutral set diluted with an ink medium. I am using a similar mix in a HP office printer as a trial. Heads cope and I use curves for partitioning.

I am using my old 2200 to prototype an inkset for my 3800. My objective is to make neutral or cool-neutral prints on glossy media using a core set of 5 inks, and to leverage the other positions for toning. 5 inks gives me smoother prints and more detail than 3 inks.

Ernst, what are you using to dilute your HP PK black? I've tried gloss optimizer but it takes the Lab B values too high (2.5 to 3). If I use the base that Paul developed I get the cool / neutral tonality I want but the gloss differential is too high for me to eliminate using Print Shield (at some dilutions). The same is true for the Canon LuciaEX inks I've tried diluting. Are you running into issues in this regard?

Terry.
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JimAscher

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Re: Use Of Epson 3880 For Only Black-&-White Printing
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2012, 09:30:54 pm »

...I'm glad you mentioned Paul Roark. Visiting the black & white section of his site (http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/) would IMHO be worthwhile time spent for the OP. Paul's approaches and philosophy are different than Jon Cone's, so getting familiar with them would provide a broader view.....Terry.

Terry: The black ink dilutions I use I mix myself from the instructions on Paul's site, with which I am obviously familiar.  But I would be interested in learning more on which ways his "approaches and philosophy" differ from Jon Cone's.  Thanks for raising this issue, for possible discussion?  Jim
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Jim Ascher

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Light Seeker

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Re: Use Of Epson 3880 For Only Black-&-White Printing
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2012, 10:30:09 pm »

But I would be interested in learning more on which ways his "approaches and philosophy" differ from Jon Cone's.  Thanks for raising this issue, for possible discussion?

Paul uses the term "open source" to describe what he does. He uses materials that are readily available and seeks to find inexpensive solutions for black & white enthusiasts. He tries to make the point of entry accessible to everyone.

Jon is a printmaker who caters to very discerning artists, some of whom require exotic / unique solutions to achieve the end print they desire. Some of the solutions he has developed over the years he has chosen to release as product. His operation is "for profit", and his solutions tend to be more costly.

Paul develops profiles to support printing from both Photoshop and QTR. He uses QTR "out of the box", so his profiles assume a linear input.

Jon used a proprietary software solution he had developed to make prints and he later ported this approach to QTR. His profiles assume a Gray Gamma 2.2 input.

There are also many similarities, one of which is the passion both have for black and white printing.

My point is not to ascribe a greater value to one approach or the other. Rather, it is to say that the solution set from each is different, as they have differing perspectives and priorities.

Terry.
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JimAscher

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Re: Use Of Epson 3880 For Only Black-&-White Printing
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2012, 11:56:15 pm »

Thanks for the excellent (and concise) explication of the differences you perceive between Cone's and Roark's approaches.  I have been in occasional email communication with Paul over the years, and have benefited greatly from his counseling.  I have however not had any direct contact with Cone and his enterprise, thus have been a bit in the dark concerning it.  So, your comparison has been quite helpful to me.  Thanks, and regards, Jim
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Ernst Dinkla

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Re: Use Of Epson 3880 For Only Black-&-White Printing
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2012, 03:49:50 am »


Ernst, what are you using to dilute your HP PK black? I've tried gloss optimizer but it takes the Lab B values too high (2.5 to 3). If I use the base that Paul developed I get the cool / neutral tonality I want but the gloss differential is too high for me to eliminate using Print Shield (at some dilutions). The same is true for the Canon LuciaEX inks I've tried diluting. Are you running into issues in this regard?

Terry.

On gloss the same issues remain, gloss difference and some bronzing if compared to the Z3100-Z3200-B9180 B&W output without the use of gloss enhancer. The ink medium is an OCP Gloss Optimizer intended for some Kodak printers, cheap medium in my opinion. I had to find a solution for thermal heads and it works, heads keep going, pigment is not settling. The trial printer is an HP K5400, larger droplets. It normally has a pigment black and CMY dyes. When gloss is printed the media choice for gloss only selects the CMY channels so I loaded them with PK, 1/3PK, 1/9PK, a simple range Paul more often used. The black cart is loaded with straight Vivera MK, in matte media presets the printer uses the CMYK channels. Partitioning curves for gloss and matte created with the clumsy Qimage curves tool and used as a print filter. I will switch to profiles made more sophisticated though.  Intended as a trial for a larger thermal head model (see the first reply) I have printed hand written and drawn fascimiles, pen and pencil, letter size, in the thousands now on thin uncoated paper with that printer. Hard to see the difference between the original and the print. For gloss I will have to find the best ink compatible paper and apply a wax after printing. It may still not be satisfying. Paul's experiments with B&W Noritsu dyes solved the gloss issues but introduced "metamerism". He knew fade resistance would be lower but that was alright for the purpose.

As I understand it from user reports the Canon iPF8300 - 6300 should deliver the best B&W gloss straight away, least gloss difference and bronzing. Canon could do a good job with a dedicated B&W printer based on the iPF510, iPF625 etc range with one (replaceable) 6 channels head and the B&W basics of the 8300 inkset.

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« Last Edit: April 26, 2012, 03:56:58 am by Ernst Dinkla »
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