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Author Topic: moire in birds and mammal hair?  (Read 4834 times)

Mitchell Baum

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moire in birds and mammal hair?
« on: April 14, 2012, 09:39:50 am »

Hi All,

I contributed a little to this forum in the distant past, but have been mostly away from it, lurking occasionally, and photography. But, I always enjoy it when I look.

I'm now wanting to photograph birds and wildlife with a long lens, probably 500mm with my Nikon D700. I've been wondering about a D800e. Would moire be a problem with feathers and hair? Is it corrected easily?

Thanks,

Mitchell




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theguywitha645d

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Re: moire in birds and mammal hair?
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2012, 12:47:03 pm »

The D800 is not really a large sensor camera. You might find Leica shooters would be able to answer this easier as they would have more experience shooting AA-less 35mm cameras. MFD folks don't usually do bird photography for obvious technical limitations.

However, I shoot a Pentax 645D which has no AA filtering. I have not found any natural pattern causing moire. I think you would be OK as I think the smaller pixel pitch of the D800E would be less likely to influenced by that.
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marcmccalmont

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Re: moire in birds and mammal hair?
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2012, 07:41:32 pm »

You can always shoot at f8 using diffraction as your aa filter on the D800, that is my plan
Marc
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Marc McCalmont

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: moire in birds and mammal hair?
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2012, 09:09:42 pm »

You can always shoot at f8 using diffraction as your aa filter on the D800, that is my plan

Hi Marc,

Yet at f/8 or narrower, the background blur (or the resulting exposure time) might be insufficient from a creative (or practical) aspect.

Cheers
Bart
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marcmccalmont

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Re: moire in birds and mammal hair?
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2012, 09:36:24 pm »

Hi Marc,

Yet at f/8 or narrower, the background blur (or the resulting exposure time) might be insufficient from a creative (or practical) aspect.

Cheers
Bart
BJL's idea of an ultrasonic vibrating sensor to blur is brilliant use it when you need it turn it off when you don't
Marc
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Marc McCalmont

telyt

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Re: moire in birds and mammal hair?
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2012, 11:47:21 pm »

I'm now wanting to photograph birds and wildlife with a long lens, probably 500mm with my Nikon D700. I've been wondering about a D800e. Would moire be a problem with feathers and hair? Is it corrected easily?

I'm photographing wildlife using the Leica DMR which has no AA filter.  I have not had any moire with mammals.  I do see moire in about 10% of my bird photos, and it seems to depend on the species as much as anything else.  Quail in the genus Callipepla i.e., California Quail and Gambell's Quail, have been the most troublesome and fixing the moire isn't fun.  I have seen moire with these species even in photos made with a D200, which has an AA filter, so the absence of the AA filter might not be the issue in all cases.

« Last Edit: April 14, 2012, 11:51:13 pm by telyt »
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Mitchell Baum

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Re: moire in birds and mammal hair?
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2012, 09:11:12 am »

Thanks everyone for your comments. Such a great forum.

Mitchell

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Mitchell Baum

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Re: moire in birds and mammal hair?
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2012, 09:20:12 am »

Hi Doug,

Sorry to see you are still handicapped by old technology. Kidding!!!!

You are the best bird photographer I know of, but this shot is incredible. Major art. I can't get over it.

Best,

Mitchell
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Guldsmed

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Re: moire in birds and mammal hair?
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2012, 01:22:57 am »

What about macro pics of butterflies? Will the structure of the scaling on the wings cause high incidence of moire?
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: moire in birds and mammal hair?
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2012, 03:19:18 am »

What about macro pics of butterflies? Will the structure of the scaling on the wings cause high incidence of moire?

Hi,

When the pattern features are smaller than the sensels, yes, inevitable. However, a camera with an anti-aliasing filter will reduce the risk, and the parts not in focus will also show less or no moiré. Using a narrower aperture will also reduce the risk, due to increasing diffraction blur.

Cheers,
Bart
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Guldsmed

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Re: moire in birds and mammal hair?
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2012, 03:44:04 am »

So if normally using (f8-)f11-f16 to increase DOF, moire on butterflywings will be a relatively rare occurrence even with a D800E without the AA filter?
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: moire in birds and mammal hair?
« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2012, 04:08:29 am »

So if normally using (f8-)f11-f16 to increase DOF, moire on butterflywings will be a relatively rare occurrence even with a D800E without the AA filter?

It would probably take f/22 to virtually avoid it, but a lot of microdetail will be lost unless advanced deconvolution sharpening is used. In general it's more efficient to avoid the moiré in the first place (with an AA-filter), than to try and repair the damage afterwards.

Cheers,
Bart
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Guldsmed

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Re: moire in birds and mammal hair?
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2012, 04:17:34 am »

Thx for the answers, so I should stay with my pre-ordered D800 and not change to D800E then...
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: moire in birds and mammal hair?
« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2012, 04:36:01 am »

Thx for the answers, so I should stay with my pre-ordered D800 and not change to D800E then...

It's your decision, but I know that I would stick to the D800 if my type of photography involved such tricky patterns. You won't regret it, it looks like a fine camera.

Cheers,
Bart
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Guldsmed

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Re: moire in birds and mammal hair?
« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2012, 04:49:53 am »

I do not think one would regret buying any of those two actually, both sounds easy to love  ;)
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gigdagefg

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Re: moire in birds and mammal hair?
« Reply #15 on: April 27, 2012, 08:29:17 am »

taken with an H4D50 (300 mm lens with 1.7 extender) no AA filter--no moire
Stanley
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