Errors In "Here Comes The D800" Article

[Mort54]

Bernard, there are a couple of errors in your article that I felt needed addressing. Both relate to your live view comments regarding the D3X.

With D3X in live view mode, the lens is stopped down in real time to whatever aperture you have set. In fact, with live view activated, you can change aperture on the fly and it is reflected real time in live view. You can see the depth of field change as you sweep through the aperture range, and can hear each aperture change as you turn the control wheel. This use of the set aperture during live view is critical, since it avoids the problem of lens focus shift. I have just confirmed this on my D3X to make sure my recollection wasn't in error. It is true that the D700 live view is with the lens wide open, regardless of what the set aperture is, and the lens is only stopped down to the set aperture when the shot is taken. I have just confirmed this on my D700. I assume the D3 behaves the same as the D700, and that the D3S behaves like the D3X, but I don't have those cameras so I can't confirm this.

The second error relates to your comment about the focus point in live view being constrained to the DX crop area of the frame. In both the D3X and D700, you can move the live view focus area anywhere in the full frame. You are not constrained to the DX crop area. Again, I have just confirmed this on my D3X and D700. I assume, but can't confirm, that the D3 and D3S behave the same way. It is true that the phase detect focus points are constrained to the DX crop area, but the phase detect focus system is only used in reflex viewing mode (with the mirror down and viewing through the viewfinder), and isn't used during live view.

One other comment regarding your review. A nit, really. I have had my D3X out in heavy rain and heavy melting snow, for extended periods of time, with the camera body soaked completely, and with the exception of my breath condensing on the surface of the LCD in cold weather, I have never experienced misting of the LCD. And I certainly have not had any persistent misting of the LCD. All I've ever had to do is wipe away my condensed breath, or rain droplets, and the LCD view is as clear as ever. Your review made it seem like this is a generic problem with D3Xs, but I can confirm it's not the case with mine, and I suspect it must have been a problem on your specific D3X. By the way, my D700 is the same, as was my D3 (now replaced by the D700).

[HSway]

@Bernard.

Thanks for the likeable read, despite some inaccuracies possibly. Btw, I, too, welcome any LV improvements that keep coming with new models (can’t say about these in question) of which implementation and execution are making quite meaningful improvements in general.

Well arranged article, feels very natural - candid.

Hynek

[Remko]

+ 1.   

Referring to you findings, Bernard, that in live view the mirror still makes it little dance after taking one photo ..... maybe, just a guess from my part, when choosing one of the continuous shooting settings the mirror will stay up? So to enable you to take multiple photos for either pano shooting or bracketing without the mirror playing up?
Just a thought.

Looking forward to the remainder of your rolling review!

cheers,
Remko

[BernardLanguillier]

Thanks for the comments.

My D3X was sold a few months back and I did therefore not have the opportunity to double check.

I am pretty positive that my very early first batch D3x sample did not give me access to very corners in live view mode.

The stop down issue, I could be wrong.

The fogging is a known issue that did occur to many D3X owners and the improvement is even explicitely listed in the Nikon D4/D800 ads.

Cheers,
Bernard

[BernardLanguillier]

About the mirror movement.

I may not have been clear. The mirror appears to be staying up. The problem I see is that, possibly because of card write time, it takes too long to get the hand back in live view mode.

Cheers,
Bernard

[BernardLanguillier]

Speaking about "errors", I could confirm today that the time it takes to get the hand back after a live view image depends on the write speed of the slowest memry card inserted.

With a Lexar 32g 1000x card it goes down to a bit more than 1 sec.

Now looking for the fastest 32gb SD card... Any advise?

Cheers,
Bernard

[Gary Brown]

Now looking for the fastest 32gb SD card... Any advise?

Rob Galbraith's site has a CF/SD/XQD card performance database. The D800/D800E section hasn't yet been completed (“…will be published by the end of April 2012”) but perhaps results for other cameras would yield clues as to which are likely to be fastest.

[BernardLanguillier]

Rob Galbraith's site has a CF/SD/XQD card performance database. The D800/D800E section hasn't yet been completed (“…will be published by the end of April 2012”) but perhaps results for other cameras would yield clues as to which are likely to be fastest.

Thanks Gary.

Looking at other cameras data it seems that SD is at best twice slower than the fastest CF... that doesn't seem too good. 

Cheers,
Bernard

[Gary Brown]

Rob Galbraith's CF/SD/XQD Performance Database now includes a section on the Nikon D800 write speed (firmware A:1.00 B:1.00).

[BernardLanguillier]

Rob Galbraith's CF/SD/XQD Performance Database now includes a section on the Nikon D800 write speed (firmware A:1.00 B:1.00).

Thanks, sounds good. I have been using a Lexar 32GB 1000x for a few days in casual shooting and the camera does feel overall extremely responsive in everything it does.

Cheers,
Bernard

[BernardLanguillier]

Thanks, sounds good. I have been using a Lexar 32GB 1000x for a few days in casual shooting and the camera does feel overall extremely responsive in everything it does.

WARNING here. It turns out there was an issue somewhere, all the hundreds of .nef I had on the Lexar 32GB 1000x were unreadable... unfortunately I only had jpg stored on the SD card...

It could be a user error as I did not format the card in camera before starting to use it.

The card doesn't even mount reliably through a USB card reader (arguably an old one), nor are the .nef downloaded through the D800 connected with USB readable...

A quick web search revealed that there may be a compatibility issue with this card.

Cheers,
Bernard

[michael]

My D800 arrived today, and I am using it with a 64GB Lexar 1000X and after an afternoon of shooting, no problems. I did format the card first with the camera (of course). 

No D800e on the horizon yet, BTW.

Michael

[BernardLanguillier]

My D800 arrived today, and I am using it with a 64GB Lexar 1000X and after an afternoon of shooting, no problems. I did format the card first with the camera (of course).  

No D800e on the horizon yet, BTW.

Michael

Yep, could be the non formating, a bad sample or an issue with this batch of cards, but there definitely are reports about issues on the D800 with some of those cards.

On the plus side, this gave me the opportunity to check the quality of in camera jpgs and they seem very usable.

Quick stitch down-ressed to 70 megapixels from in camera jpgs...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bernardlanguillier/6929054304/sizes/o/in/photostream/

Regards,
Bernard

[BernardLanguillier]

Yep, could be the non formating, a bad sample or an issue with this batch of cards, but there definitely are reports about issues on the D800 with some of those cards.

Quick update on this. One more attempt with a replacement card... same issue.

Either it is an issue with this batch of cards, with my sample of the D800 or possibly a generic issue.

Cheers,
Bernard

[BernardLanguillier]

Quick update on this. One more attempt with a replacement card... same issue.

Either it is an issue with this batch of cards, with my sample of the D800 or possibly a generic issue.

New update, no issues with a Sandisk 32GB 600x card which is still fast enough for my needs, I'll stick to that.

I am not sure what the problem was with the 2 Lexar cards I tried, but others have reported no issues with these cards.

Cheers,
Bernard

[JeffKohn]

Well, it turns out that the complaints about the D800 LiveView implementation are not founded in misunderstanding of how it works by Canon users. Apparently the LV on the D800 is different from previous Nikons, and uses (pretty bad) interpolation for 100% view. See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSALyicAdj4

So Bernard I know you've used the D3x and D7000 in the past, how big an issue do you find this to be on the D800 for manual focusing, now that you've been using it a while?

I don't see this stopping me from getting the camera, but it is disappointing.

[BernardLanguillier]

Well, it turns out that the complaints about the D800 LiveView implementation are not founded in misunderstanding of how it works by Canon users. Apparently the LV on the D800 is different from previous Nikons, and uses (pretty bad) interpolation for 100% view. See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSALyicAdj4

So Bernard I know you've used the D3x and D7000 in the past, how big an issue do you find this to be on the D800 for manual focusing, now that you've been using it a while?

I don't see this stopping me from getting the camera, but it is disappointing.

Hi Jeff,

I finally had the opportunity to shoot real landscape with the D800 for 3 days last week.

100% of the 80GB of raw data I captured were shot with manual lenses (24 mm PCE, Zeiss 50 and 100 f2 and Leica 180 f2.8 APO). They were all focused with live view with the following process:
- Manual mode,
- Live view in high magnification mode,
- focus at full aperture then stop down to target aperture (typically f5.6 - f11), I sometimes had to change shutter speed also to avoid having too bright a level of display,
- set the camera back to its target aperture/speed.

Many of these images were shot in pretty dark forest environments, but none of them were shot a dusk or dawn. I have not examined all of the raw files, but 100% of those I saw up close are 100% perfectly focused. With the right LR4 sharpening settings, the images are impressively sharp when viewed at 100% on screen.

My conclusion remains the same, there is zero issue with the live view of the D800. I makes it possible to achieve reliably perfect focus with manual lenses even in pretty dark environments.

Here is one quick sample of these images, more to follow:



Generally speaking, my view is now clearly that the D800 is significantly superior to the D3x in terms of achievable detail, colors and DR.



Cheers,
Bernard