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Author Topic: What's Hasselblad been working on?  (Read 11957 times)

Brian Hirschfeld

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What's Hasselblad been working on?
« on: March 27, 2012, 07:14:44 AM »

So I saw on photo rumors a leak about some new system from Hasselblad either being a sub-medium format DSLR or a digital xpan coming up very soon. Either of these would be very exciting to be, but especially the Xpan, because I have an Xpan II and the biggest difficulty in using it is the awkward sized negatives, just like any panoramic format since the place I generally get my film done won't / can't scan the wider images. Any thoughts on this rumor?
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MrSmith

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Re: What's Hasselblad been working on?
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2012, 07:45:42 AM »

they push the Ferrari edition everytime the F1 season starts. I can see further collaborations with other luxury brands and 'personalities' happening soon to reinforce brand awareness.
as for product development i guess that depends on what the sensor manufacturers decide to do with their R&D budget.
you get a free copy of lightroom with every purchase now, which is nice.
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Brian Hirschfeld

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Re: What's Hasselblad been working on?
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2012, 07:55:16 AM »

I hope its something exciting and different personally.

I was just in Hong Kong, and they were selling the Hasselblad Ferrari H4D-60 at the little electronics store in the airport, crazy.
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design_freak

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Re: What's Hasselblad been working on?
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2012, 09:02:04 AM »

They working for rebranding Fuji X Pro ...
At heart, I want this to be a xpan or something completely new, something groundbreaking.
Time will show ...
I keep my fingers crossed

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Brian Hirschfeld

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Re: What's Hasselblad been working on?
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2012, 10:12:35 AM »

I mean the X-Pro 1 which I was able to actually touch when I was in Hong Kong is very much modeled after the Design of the Xpan which was also used for that Horseman 3D which use the same body. If it has a wide sensor that would be pretty cool.
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BJL

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a digital XPan scanning with a linear sensor could be cool
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2012, 11:38:16 AM »

A digital XPan could use a scanning sensor rather than needing a large custom panoramic array-style sensor, and would avoid the need for a Bayer CFA and demosaicing. A 24mm high linear sensor matching the format of XPan lenses could be relatively inexpensive, by Hasselblad digital camera standards.

The closest off-the-shelf sensor I can see for the job is this one, 28mm high instead of 24mm:
http://www.kodak.com/ek/uploadedFiles/Content/Small_Business/Images_Sensor_Solutions/Datasheets(pdfs)/KLI-2104ProductSummary.pdf
Great dynamic range of 80dB chroma, 75dB in luma, and the nice idea of making five measurements at each of 2048 locations: red, green, blue, and two luminosity. That is, luminosity is sampled at 4096 locations along each line, and each of R, G and B is sampled at 2048 locations.
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Brian Hirschfeld

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Re: What's Hasselblad been working on?
« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2012, 11:42:26 AM »

Thats hot, like a mini Seitz 617 right? who currently makes Hasselblad sensors?
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Dustbak

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Re: What's Hasselblad been working on?
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2012, 11:45:43 AM »

Kodak & Dalsa, depending on the product (that is if you mean 'who is making the sensors that go into Hasselblad products').
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Brian Hirschfeld

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Re: What's Hasselblad been working on?
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2012, 11:47:42 AM »

Yup thats what I meant, it'll be interesting, how fast can a scanning sensor like that scan? Thinking about moving subjects etc. and Wouldn't this be an issue for longer exposures, or does it make multiple passes for longer exposures?
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BJL

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Re: What's Hasselblad been working on?
« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2012, 12:16:29 PM »

Yup thats what I meant, it'll be interesting, how fast can a scanning sensor like that scan? Thinking about moving subjects etc.
Total exposure times are long (some seconds total?), but surprisingly, it is possible to do this hand-held and with some moving subjects, because even though the total exposure time is long, the exposure time at each vertical line is still as brief as the ISO speed/exposure index suggests, so motion blur is no worse than with a normal system. It is like a slow-motion version of what happens at very high shutter speeds with a focal plane shutter, where you might get 1/8000s exposure at each point of the image, but 1/250s total time for the shutter to move across the image. In both cases, subject or camera motion can distort the image a bit, like making cars lean over, but without blurring it.

I believe that there is even a larger format scanning camera which advertises the ability to use it hand-held, and with photos of action like surfing.
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Brian Hirschfeld

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Re: What's Hasselblad been working on?
« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2012, 12:20:22 PM »

I believe that there is even a larger format scanning camera which advertises the ability to use it hand-held, and with photos of action like surfing.

I'd be interested to see more information about that
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BJL

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Re: What's Hasselblad been working on?
« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2012, 01:29:49 PM »

I'd be interested to see more information about that
I must have been thinking of the Seitz 617 that someone else already mentioned above --- a $40,000+ camera, using a linear sensor that was custom designed and made for Seitz by Dalsa, to allow relatively speedy one second exposure times. The Kodak linear sensors I linked to might be far slower.

Some samples, including one with moving water:
http://www.roundshot.ch/xml_1/internet/de/application/d438/d925/f1000.cfm

Given the overwhelming trend towards active pixel CMOS technology, which is now clearly better than CCDs (at equal pixel size) in every important respect and in some respects better by a huge margin, and given also the apparent inability of medium format cameras makers (or anyone else) to justify the high transition costs of adapting modern CMOS sensor technology to cameras in formats larger than 36x24mm, companies like Hasselblad and Phase One might _need_ to start pursuing new technologies and niches like scanning backs, for the advantages of very high resolution and dynamic range when working with stationary or slow moving subjects. This cannot do everything that current MF backs do, but would work in any situation where the multi-shot approach works, and in some cases where the latter does not.
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Doug Peterson

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Re: What's Hasselblad been working on?
« Reply #13 on: March 27, 2012, 01:47:03 PM »

Kodak & Dalsa, depending on the product (that is if you mean 'who is making the sensors that go into Hasselblad products').

Just as a point of minor correction, Kodak sold their Image Sensor Solutions division to a private equity firm and should now be probably referred to as  True Sense Imaging or "TSI (formerly Kodak)" for least confusion. Or is that more confusing?

The H4D-60 is the only current Hasselblad product which uses a Dalsa sensor.

Brian Hirschfeld

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Re: What's Hasselblad been working on?
« Reply #14 on: March 30, 2012, 01:52:56 PM »

The H4D-60 is the only current Hasselblad product which uses a Dalsa sensor.


What are the P1's? whats mine?
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Doug Peterson

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Re: What's Hasselblad been working on?
« Reply #15 on: March 30, 2012, 02:11:06 PM »

As a rule of thumb the older Phase One backs use TSI (formerly Kodak) sensors and the newer Phase One backs use Dalsa sensors. There are some exceptions to that rule for some products introduced more than a decade ago.

Phase One Backs that use sensors from TSI (formerly Kodak)
H20, H25, P20, P21, P25, P30, P45, P20+, P21+, P25+, P30+, P45+

Phase One Backs that use sensors from Dalsa
P40+, P65+, IQ140, IQ160, IQ180

It would be impolite for me to comment more on a thread started regarding Hasselblad development (it would be hijacking the thread). If you're interested in more about the pros and cons of each kind of sensor or more history you're welcome to stop by the office or start a new thread.

Steve Hendrix

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Re: What's Hasselblad been working on?
« Reply #17 on: March 30, 2012, 04:12:32 PM »

For even more sensor minutia, Hasselblad (technically, pre-Hasselblad) also formerly utilized a Phillips sensor, via the Imacon Flexframe 3020 (formerly Carnival 3020).


Steve Hendrix
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BJL

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Re: What's Hasselblad been working on?
« Reply #18 on: March 30, 2012, 06:27:40 PM »

For even more sensor minutia, Hasselblad (technically, pre-Hasselblad) also formerly utilized a Phillips sensor, via the Imacon Flexframe 3020 (formerly Carnival 3020).
Yes, that was the proto-Hasselblad using a sensor from the proto-Dalsa, since Dalsa later bought that sensor division of Phillips (and still has some of its sensor research division in the Netherlands even if some work moved to Canada.)

So while we are being correct about names, not only is it
"Truesense Imaging (formerly Kodak Imaging)",
but also a lot pf MF sensors come from
"Teledyne-Dalsa (formerly Dalsa, and even more formerly part of Phillips)".
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jduncan

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Re: What's Hasselblad been working on?
« Reply #19 on: March 31, 2012, 09:35:00 AM »

So I saw on photo rumors a leak about some new system from Hasselblad either being a sub-medium format DSLR or a digital xpan coming up very soon. Either of these would be very exciting to be, but especially the Xpan, because I have an Xpan II and the biggest difficulty in using it is the awkward sized negatives, just like any panoramic format since the place I generally get my film done won't / can't scan the wider images. Any thoughts on this rumor?

I hope they are investing and not thinking like "I am doom" lets sale as expensive as I can and then, die.  In other words the I can't increase my market perspective.  If Hasselblad improves the camera and the sensor (the dead of Kodak is problematic in that respect) and control prices they can gain a lot of market traction.

Everybody and their grandpas are buying DSLRs. The low price of the D800 and 5D III means that pros will not be able to differentiate by camera image quality,  but by technique, resources and creativity. A fair priced medium format camera with modern Dynamic range and current medium format colors will be a way to add better camera to the creative /technique mix.

Medium format has an opportunity, but they need to invest now, or resources starvation will kick in.

Best regards,

James
 
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