Sony NEX-7 Questions -- Is it Me or the Camera?

[JNHenry]

Hi all,

I'm looking for some feedback from those that have used the Sony NEX-7, both with E-mount lenses and M-mount lenses.  I've read great reviews of the -7, so when one was in the store here in Auckland I bought it.  I wanted a back-up body for my M9 that could use my M-mount lenses, but also something that could replace my Canon 5Dii when traveling for longer reach.  I'm about to go back to Bhutan, where I need 150-300mm reach, and thought the NEX-7 with 18-200mm lens would fit the bill.  Alas, I'm not as satisfied with the -7 as I thought I would be, especially given Michael's great review and the experiences shared by others. 

At first I thought it was my technique--maybe the higher megapixel count required a faster shutter speed.  So, I started shooting at ISO 200 or 400 with a shutter speed of at least 2-3x the 1/effective focal length.  This didn't help.  I put the camera on a tripod, and the results were not much better (using the self timer release, and it was on my RRS TVC-24L and BH-40 head).

Over the past few weeks I've noticed the following:

     - Using the 18-200mm, the autofocus does not get the subject in focus.  It locks onto the subject and indicates it's in focus, but when I look at it on my computer monitor, the subject is not in focus.  This happens at almost all apertures, even when stopping down should increase the depth of field enough.
     - Given that this is a 1.5x crop frame, even at f/10 and f/16, the depth of field is razor thin--couple of inches at most (for a subject 10-15 feet away from me, using an effective focal length of about 75mm).
     - Using the 18-200mm, I find that I need to zoom in through the EVF to fine tune the focus, and when zoomed in I find the autofocus was off quite a bit.  But, even doing that I'm still not getting the subject in focus (when using higher shutter speeds than should be needed)
     - When using M-mount glass and focus peaking, I've found that the focus peaking does not really show what's in focus.  If I first use focus peaking and then zoom in, it is clear that what focus peaking indicated was in focus was really not in focus.  No biggie on that, since I can adjust as needed, but this means that every shot needs to be adjusted which rules out shooting in fast changing situations.

I've searched this and other online forums and can't find others who have had this experience.  So, is it me?  I feel my technique is solid, but maybe it isn't.  Is the camera bad and in need of adjustment?  I guess it could be the lenses, but my M-mount glass is spot on on the M9, so find it hard to believe it wouldn't be so on the -7; maybe the 18-200 is misaligned?

Right now I don't feel comfortable taking this camera to Bhutan with me, and will probably take the 5Dii and 70-300L lens.  I get some great shots with wonderful detail with the NEX-7, but the consistency is maybe at 20%, whereas I know the 5Dii is closer to 90-95% with regards to focus, stability and depth of field.  I feel I can rely on the 5Dii, but I can not right now rely on the NEX-7.

I've attached a few images below as examples.  The first one, of a Bhutanese religious weaving, was taken with the -7 and Leica 90mm APO Summicron using the built in flash; 1/60 of a second and amazing detail--that's the "I know it can work" shot.  The other two are pretty much straight out of the camera and converted to JPEG in LR4.  I've included the full frame and crops of about 100%; I just don't think the detail is there--at least the detail that is possible from the 5Dii.

I know the chances are it is me, not the camera, that is to blame.  But, my continues tests using tripod, magnified focus, multiple lenses, etc, continues to show the same results.  Any comments and suggestions would be greatly appreciated.  I really want to like and use the NEX-7.

Thanks,

Jeff



The below images are with the 18-200mm, at f/10 and 1/500 second, ISO 400





Below images are with 18-200mm, f/10, 1/800 second, ISO 200

[Brian Hirschfeld]

Have not used the camera personally, but from your detailed description it sounds like something is off in the camera, either in the mount, or sensor housing, but somewhere there is more or less space then there should be. Its unlikely that you would be receiving bad results with BOTH an M adapter and a Sony lens if one of them were to blame, assuming you have a decent m adapter, and since you say your m lenses are spot on on your M9 which I assume you would be able to tell if they weren't.....Sony lenses are probably pretty good at this point since they are riding this mirror less wave and a bad batch of lenses wouldn't be good PR but it is always possible that you got a bad m adapter AND lens although statistically its less likely for this scenario.

If time and money permits I'd get another adapter (maybe another brand) and another lens, and another body (money) or at least get access to them so your an run some quick tests and figure out where the weak link is (time).

Again never used the camera, I mean to, but I think this is the route to go, unless you can micro adjust focusing with the sony lens like you can with canon and nikon DSLR"s with something like that lens align thing if you have the option for that, but thats just sort of a quick fix for one lens to get it working for the trip, but not a solution.

[Dennishh]

I've been shooting with the NEX 7 for a couple of months now with no such errors in focus. It looks like your camera is severely front focusing which could mean a misalignment of the camera sensor itself or a combination of camera and lens. I would take both of them back and replace. If that's not possible the camera and lens have to go back to Sony for calibration. When shooting a tripod with a stabilized lens is supposed to turn off image stabilization in the setup menu. If I had to bet, I would say it's the camera. Sorry to hear about your situation but it's not uncommon it happened to my 1DsMK3.

[Rawcoll]

Jeff, I am neither an NEX shooter, nor can I give you a solution, but the comments made by Brian and Dennishh really only apply to cameras that focus by phase detection, and not contrast detection as in your camera. It is certainly true that lenses for phase detection can front or back focus, and for this reason the more advanced cameras have a facility for tweaking this. With contrast detection that shouldn't happen I believe, since focusing uses a straight forward feedback loop to adjust the lens to give maximum contrast (and therefore focus). I'm not sure why your camera isn't doing that.

When you say that the image isn't in focus when viewed on a monitor, is any part of the image in focus? That will tell you whether te camera is focusing on the wrong point, or whether the lens just can't give you what you are looking for. Perhaps your expectations for an 11x zoom are too high if you are used to the Summicron? I am sure others could comment on the performance of this lens.

And of course, the Summicron will be focused manually and so isn't relying on the camera's focusing system.

Ian

[JohnBrew]

Jeff, you're not alone. I carried out a pretty intense session yesterday with the NEX-7 and found "focus peaking" faily inconsistent. But I'm going to write it off to inexperience with the system and keep persevering.

[JNHenry]

Thanks for your replies and input. 

To answer some of the questions:

    - Yes, parts of the image are in focus, but not what should be in focus.  As an example, at f/10 (with the 18-200) I focused on a subject that was looking at me.  The camera recognizes a face and focuses on that.  When I look at the image later on the monitor, the face is not in focus, but other parts of the image are in focus.

     - Regarding focus peaking when using M-mount glass, even when stopped down (say f/8-f/11), what the camera shows will/should be in focus is not.  If I use focus peaking and don't zoom in then I won't get the subject in focus (even if that subject is awash in focus peaking blinking lights).

Understand there is a difference between phase and contrast focus detection, but the fact that the camera can't properly indicate what is in focus using M-glass and focus peaking seems to me to indicate it is a camera body problem.  We'll see.

I'm going to go back to the store and see if they will let me try my lenses on another NEX-7 body.  Hopefully that will solve the problem.

Cheers,

Jeff

[AFairley]

   - Regarding focus peaking when using M-mount glass, even when stopped down (say f/8-f/11), what the camera shows will/should be in focus is not.  If I use focus peaking and don't zoom in then I won't get the subject in focus (even if that subject is awash in focus peaking blinking lights).

have you established a base line to compare to (i.e., by focusing using magnified view (not peaking) and then focus bracketing, so that you have a reference that shows perfect focus?  Fr

[douglasf13]

Jeff, you're not alone. I carried out a pretty intense session yesterday with the NEX-7 and found "focus peaking" faily inconsistent. But I'm going to write it off to inexperience with the system and keep persevering.

Peaking takes practice, but there a few tricks to focus peaking. The first is dialing it in. Not only does the peaking level influence the amount of peaking, but so do your jpeg contrast and sharpness settings. I prefer Neutral creative style with -3 contrast, + 3 sharpness, and peaking level set to "low," but YMMV.

The second trick is what to look for. You basically have to look at a single point when focusing, rather than viewing how the peaking influences the whole scene. Imagine that you just have one AF focus point, like on a DSLR. When you narrow in on looking at just that point, and ignore the peaking in the rest of the frame, you can watch the peaking swell up and down in that point and shoot when it is at its highest level.

You also have to pay keen attention to how much the small area that you're focusing on is "peaked." I always leave my lenses focused at infinity, pick the small detail that I'm focusing on, rack focus until the peaking swells up in that area and then goes away, and then quickly pull back focus to the point where the peaking swelled up the most. This lets me see just how much "peaking" swells up in the object that I'm focusing on. Just because you see peaking in an object doesn't mean that it is in focus. You have to pick the moment where that object is the "most peaked." 

With the above recommendations, I rarely need to use focus magnification. I think a lot of users get confused by peaking, because there can often be peaking all over the scene at various levels. Ignore all of that, and, just like using single point AF in a DSLR, focus on one little point in the frame and how peaking affects that little point, and you'll be fine.

[JNHenry]

Thanks everybody your your input, advice and suggestions.

I've taken the camera back to the store, and they have sent it off for Sony to take a look at it.  Hopefully that will fix the problem.  If not, I"ll reevaluate when the camera body comes back.  I'll let you know how it goes.

Thanks,

Jeff

[rupertpupkin]

Hi Jeff,
I'm curious to hear how this turned out. I just bought a NEX-7 with the Zeiss 24mm, and nothing is very sharp. I spent a lot of time on focusing tests today and am fairly certain I got a dud. Everything is sort of "close, but not quite". I'm tempted to just return it and find a different system.

Did Sony send you a new camera?

Regards,
Dalton

[JNHenry]

Dalton,

Don't have an answer yet.  The camera is with Sony NZ or maybe Sony Australia right now being checked out.  No sense of urgency in NZ, and the long Easter weekend begins tomorrow.  I don't expect to get it back for at least another week and then I'm off on a trip for 3. 

Honestly, if I were you, I'd take it back.  I kept mine for about a month before getting the store to send it in to be checked out.  I thought the problem had to be me, so was trying the 18-200mm Sony E lens, plus many of my m-mount lenses.  Kept thinking I'd eventually get the hang of it, and now the return period has surely passed.  Live and learn, though maybe the store will be good to me since I've been a good customer.  Time will tell.

I'll post again once I hear back from Sony and get the camera back. 

Jeff

[rupertpupkin]

Thanks for the follow up, Jeff. I'm interested to hear how it works out.

I spent quite a bit more time testing my NEX-7 since my last post. My conclusion is that there's nothing wrong with the camera, it's just the Zeiss 24mm is not as sharp as I'd expected. It's especially soft in the corners and exhibits very significant CA. Since that lens is, by all accounts, the best E mount lens available and one of the main reasons I bought the camera, the whole kit is going back. I'll be saving my money for a Nikon D800E, I suppose.

Regards,
Dalton

[bobtowery]

Sometimes it works! 18-200mm. This is quite a crop.