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Author Topic: Sebastião Salgado: The Colorado Plateau's National Parks in Photos  (Read 14235 times)

wolfnowl

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francois

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Re: Sebastião Salgado: The Colorado Plateau's National Parks in Photos
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2012, 06:09:02 am »

Hi Mike,
Thanks for the link to this wonderful gallery.
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Francois

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Re: Sebastião Salgado: The Colorado Plateau's National Parks in Photos
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2012, 10:12:23 am »

Splendid stuff, Mike. Unfortunately, 72ppi doesn't really get the job done. Wish I could see the prints.
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Rob C

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Re: Sebastião Salgado: The Colorado Plateau's National Parks in Photos
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2012, 11:03:40 am »

I'm afraid it makes me uncomfortable.

Where I'd need a model, he needs a sweating, toiling, impoverished 'victim'. But Taschen will do very well out of this.

IMO (to quote Coot).

Rob C

micek

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Re: Sebastião Salgado: The Colorado Plateau's National Parks in Photos
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2012, 12:47:41 pm »

I'm afraid it makes me uncomfortable.

Where I'd need a model, he needs a sweating, toiling, impoverished 'victim'. But Taschen will do very well out of this.

IMO (to quote Coot).

Rob C

It might help to actually look at the pictures the OP was referring to: not a single human being in sight.
As to Salgado's better known work (or, simply, better work), to say that he "needs" impoverished victims where you'd need a model, well, that says more about you than about his work -no offence.
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Rob C

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Re: Sebastião Salgado: The Colorado Plateau's National Parks in Photos
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2012, 01:15:19 pm »



1. It might help to actually look at the pictures the OP was referring to: not a single human being in sight.

2. As to Salgado's better known work (or, simply, better work), to say that he "needs" impoverished victims where you'd need a model, well, that says more about you than about his work -no offence.


1.  My point.

2.  Of course it does; I wrote it! None taken; I see it as a natural curse. To amplify a little though, he shows nothing that hasn't been shown ad nauseam, and better. It only exists because it's something other than his usual oeuvre and the name is powerful enough to shift the book...

Rob C

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Re: Sebastião Salgado: The Colorado Plateau's National Parks in Photos
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2012, 05:40:47 pm »

Oy veh, Keith, I thought I had!

Thing is, I can write when I don't feel up to going out laden with the box; it's why the cellpix exist. But I agree, to a point: those sorts of things are just games with toys, but then what else can photography be for me now? Stock? You must be joking: at best, it was ever a young man's game; now, even that's debatable.

So what else? My agency, Tony Stone, advised against more Spanish 'atmospherics' because all the big agencies were drowning in that stuff (pre-digital!). The BJP wrote that Image Bank had 36,000 images of the Eiffel Tower... wanna make the 36,001st one? Porn? No thanks, not my bag. Street? For whom to buy? Weddings, pasports? I'd rather read the newspapers. Houses? The agents do their own more than ever before. Yachts? A closed loop based in Palma and a handful of important brokers. Landscape? Not my thing, either. You know perfectly well what I loved, and that's not changed much, just become impossible.

It isn't about making money anymore; it's all about loving what I do. Much as with you, too, except that you still run a business.

Rob C

fredjeang

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Re: Sebastião Salgado: The Colorado Plateau's National Parks in Photos
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2012, 08:28:20 pm »

Well,

What Rob had to face in a very short period of time wasn't easy to overcome.
Lost of a life's love, lost of professional activity, lost of health, and living in an island where things barely move within a foreign culture.
In short, Rob's in a no-man's land and the pre-tropical island looks more like a golden hell than a paradise for successfull retired photographer.
Yes, the pain is tangible but understandable.

Of course, we all experience great pain at one point or another, and to diverse degree. This is not a unique case. But who can say how we would overcome the obstacles before being in the middle of the s...t ?

I'm sure there is a solution, a way out and a good life. In fact, I know there is a solution. But it has to be experienced by the person himself. No advice, no external recommendation can change that even if they are wise.
The shift has to come from one's self, and I guess he's closer to it now than 6 months ago.

The pains are inevitable, for everybody. But the sufferings yes are optional. The problem is that the pain, has crazy as it sounds, is addictive. The addiction of pain leads to suffering. In fact, suffering is an unnecesary pain that has been amplified and more importantly, cultivated. And why someone would cultivate the pain? Simply because it gives an identity (the programming), fills a missing space and because we tend to reproduce what is familiar to us, even if what is familiar is painfull and leads to more of it. The nostalgia for example, is of course a mirage and a neurosis. Souvenirs are completly false because tinted with emotions (positives or negatives).
And the suffering is always linked to the concept of time. Past and future, never is in the present time. Erase time is erasing suffering. That's a knowledge known since the birth of the solar system.
And the more tragic of those situations that we have always experienced to different degrees, is that we loose our freedom where it really is. We're not in control. Mind and emotions are driving us.

Mind doesn't care if its destructive. It just obey to patterns and programming. Once those patterns take place for a certain time, they are very difficult to erase because they have a "proper life" if I might say to simplify. So they ask for their aliment to perpetuate the same emotion-response over and over again wich become the material experience.

More generally, if we don't live with mind control (and mind control is all and all we really have), we are simply living according to the external circunstances and respond accordingly. In other words, we are the object of others. If the external circunstances are good, we feel good, great, alive. But it's just a mirage because the moment the external circunstances aren't good any more, we feel desperate and suffer.

Of course, there is the possibility not being on bondage, but each person has to find the right moment and more importantly, has to see it by himself. For many, it occurs when on the edge, just before touching the very bottom of the unbearable. The time a person has suffer enough and say, I'm done with that, then the solution and the light comes very fast. But for many, the suffering is actually not strong enough, and even give them an identity they don't want to leave. "I've lost my wife, I've lost my job, my country and my health or whatever; should I also lost "my" identity?" Precisely, that's the best to do.  

The solution... will NOT come from "outside". It will not come from a shooting with a great model. Because you'll be happy 4 hours, the moment of the shooting you'll feel alive, and then, when the light's off, you'll feel even more dead and depressed than before.
The solution will come if ...

Hope Rob and any being who's experiencing pain-big difficulties find it.


Sorry for being out of thread.
 
 
« Last Edit: March 21, 2012, 09:35:54 pm by fredjeang »
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Sebastião Salgado: The Colorado Plateau's National Parks in Photos
« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2012, 08:56:26 pm »

Had it not been for the name, we would be much less kind to those gritty, faux-HDR landscapes. It works much, much better with his "models".

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Sebastião Salgado: The Colorado Plateau's National Parks in Photos
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2012, 09:38:18 pm »

...man, your pain is tangible...

I'll take works of a man in pain over a happy-go-lucky blabbering any day!

As Leo Tolstoy said: "Happy families are all alike; every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way".

"All alike" = boring (not for them, for me).

Rob C

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Re: Sebastião Salgado: The Colorado Plateau's National Parks in Photos
« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2012, 06:00:13 am »

Had it not been for the name, we would be much less kind to those gritty, faux-HDR landscapes. It works much, much better with his "models".




Yes, that's where my own opinion resides.

I obviously have no idea of Salgado's circumstances; he may be as rich as Creusus or he may be struggling; he might be very active in humanitarian endeavours or not, but I suspect that above all of it, he needs a change of lifestyle. We all reach that point, whether we admit to it or not: it's the boredom level we come to discover within ourselves and then find that we have to deal with, if we are to move on. There are precious few things we find in life that are really, really worth clinging onto for the duration.

Worse, there are even fewer things that we are capable of doing equally well as our best. That hurts!

On any level of personal ease with the self, a book offer from Taschen is a very tough deal to ignore - why should anyone? But that doesn't make the work great. It means that the publisher sees an opportunity.

In the genre that I feel the Salgado 'landscape' tries to do battle, there is already Mitch Dubrowner. What's the point of fighting that; at best one will always be a runner-up. And for someone with the Salgado gravitas, that's not a good place to fnd oneself.

Anyway, Jeanloup Sieff already did Death Valley, reportage-style, on paper and for tv, in his inimitably gritty and dramatically printed way, I think in the 70s.

Rob C

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Re: Sebastião Salgado: The Colorado Plateau's National Parks in Photos
« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2012, 07:18:10 am »

Rob, that's good to hear, the problem is your keyboard doesn't seem to be in sync with the notion. Your posts seem to suggest that you find little to love about what you do and little to love about photography, photographers...really, you name it.

You describe your cameras as bookends and the process as techno-centric. Have you considered selling them and buying something you can actually carry and use rather than wait until they are valueless? If you really find post processing so intolerable you could do worse than shoot jpegs and consider the job done, much as you did with film, preferably with a camera that actually delivers usable results rather than a 'fone'.

Your say it isn't about making money anymore and yet don't seem able to come to terms with the notion or to move on from it.

Rob, we go back a long way and have always said it as we see it, but man, your pain is tangible.

Keith


Keith –

I don’t think I see my life quite as you see my life. ;-)

I have no problem with photographers – with those I have always respected, at least - and certainly don’t wish to come over as any iconoclast. Equally, I’m not in the business of blind adoration. I see great work and I see crap; I see great fashion and awful street; wonderful travel work and lousy architectural. And the thing is, each photographer appears (to me) to be pretty much limited to a single good zone within which he can outshine the competition.

Bookends. Indeed; and no, I can’t sell the only one I do want to sell – the D200. I have spent and lost a friggin’ king’s ransom on cameras and lenses ever since I went crazy and sold the ‘blads. I always came back, eventually, to 35mm and Nikon. I have no need for any camera that gives me more than can the D700. What I have need for is better health, which I can’t buy, or some magic potion that allows me, again, the strength to walk the walk with that Gitzo slung over my shoulder and the bag over the other. For better or for worse, the stuff I have is the last repository of my mad money!

I’m not the most masculine of men; I’m not of the age and/or physical stature that holds wannabe thieves at bay; were I to stroll around Palma in my habitual T-shirt and jeans, wearing an M9 (that I don’t have) and my Rolex (that I have had since before James Bond got around to it)), I’d be pretty unlikely to come home the way I left it. I’d probably not even make it out the underground car-park. Hell, even the cellphone is at risk!

Another thing you misunderstand about my world-view: I have no fight with post-processing apart from not being very good at it; my stance re. film v. digital is on another plane: I’ve tried to be clear on it, but let me try once again: film photography  (and we didn’t call it that or think of it as that at the time - it was just ‘photography’)  attracted me because of several things in my own nature. I wanted to be a painter but lacked the skill to make it a success; I wanted to go to art school but could not because the school I was in discouraged ‘art’ as being a class reserved for duffers; I was steered towards English and the Sciences and Maths, where the latter only reached an acceptable exam level via coaching from my girlfriend, Ann, who shone there. In those days, you tended to do as you were told. (And there was National Service, a two-year threat held over the head as in sword-style between the ages of 17 and, I think, 26. Heysoos! You can see me as cut out for that career?)

So, photography was very much a substitute for painting, a natural extension – as you also seem to have found – of the one into the other. In my mind, there is a natural divide between those who love technology and those who love art. This may not be true for anyone other than myself, but it’s that personal truth that counts. And that’s why I know that were photography in the 50s in the same state it is now, with all of this pixel-peeping, menu-tracking and generally inconvenient functionality, it wouldn’t have seemed like an attraction to me. Keith, I still hate having to work out how to make the Video machine function. Worse, it does both DVD and VCR, and I have missed several things I wanted to record because of it and the inability to come to terms with it. It’s how I am, for better or for worse.

Making money. If by that you refer to models, yes; I have no wish to pay them the pro rate for my own pleasure. Worse, even if I were a millionaire and able to indulge those things, it wouldn’t work. I have always needed to have the incentive of the assignment to be able to raise both my game and the interest level to where it should be. Any old fool, this one included, can go out and snap away. But to what end? Without the commission, there is, for me, no point. It was my biggest problem when shooting stock, and the main reason why most of the successful stuff was derived from commissioned calendar shoots: the pix were born from the pressure of the work. It was how it functioned for me, made it tick. And I can tell you, every model with whom I discussed it felt the same: stock shoots were not usually welcomed other than for the money. Even there it was all about ego and purpose, and the worst commissions they ever got were to work for camera clubs or ‘workshops’, all of which were avoided if anything else was available. Good models are as concerned about what they do as are photographers, perhaps even more so because they are recognized.

To end, and in order to go make lunch, there is a need for something beyond the mere doing of the thing; purpose is just as important and being assigned to do something is the best validation of which I can think.

Rob C
« Last Edit: March 22, 2012, 01:10:42 pm by Rob C »
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markadams99

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Re: Sebastião Salgado: The Colorado Plateau's National Parks in Photos
« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2012, 08:58:48 am »

Interesting thread, thanks. I'm tempted to say 'Hope I die before I get old', but I already got old. D'oh!

Some of the Salgados are pretty decent. He doesn't strain too much for effect apart from the basic look, which I do agree can get on one's nerves with repetition.

When reviewing RobC's attractive site, I picked up on Weebly.com. I'll be sitting down with 10yo daughter tonight to launch her onto Weebly. In a couple of hours her fingers will be flying and we'll have multimedia sites for us and the dogs - I base that on her amazing facility with Minecraft. Anyway Weebly looks great to this wordpress/html/zenfolio veteran. I don't mean to knock the excellent Zenfolio at all, but quick,dirty, elegant and free has appeal.

NikoJorj

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Re: Sebastião Salgado: The Colorado Plateau's National Parks in Photos
« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2012, 10:39:54 am »

Had it not been for the name, we would be much less kind to those gritty, faux-HDR landscapes.
Ditto.
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Nicolas from Grenoble
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Rob C

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Re: Sebastião Salgado: The Colorado Plateau's National Parks in Photos
« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2012, 11:37:27 am »

Interesting thread, thanks. I'm tempted to say 'Hope I die before I get old', but I already got old. D'oh!

Some of the Salgados are pretty decent. He doesn't strain too much for effect apart from the basic look, which I do agree can get on one's nerves with repetition.

When reviewing RobC's attractive site, I picked up on Weebly.com. I'll be sitting down with 10yo daughter tonight to launch her onto Weebly. In a couple of hours her fingers will be flying and we'll have multimedia sites for us and the dogs - I base that on her amazing facility with Minecraft. Anyway Weebly looks great to this wordpress/html/zenfolio veteran. I don't mean to knock the excellent Zenfolio at all, but quick,dirty, elegant and free has appeal.





For that, we can both thank Fred who introduced me to it and also facilitated a technophobe such as I to get to grips with it!

Weebly offers several levels of site - mine is one up from the free version because I opted to use my own domain name. There are levels beyond that, but I simply don't have the commercial need.

Enjoy!

Rob C

fredjeang

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Re: Sebastião Salgado: The Colorado Plateau's National Parks in Photos
« Reply #15 on: March 22, 2012, 12:51:34 pm »

Rob, you're right.

Sadly, and after many years trying, I think I should quit for the sake of sanity, both yours and mine.

Best

Keith



Keith, if you wish to answer my question: trying what?

ps: trying and not doing it, is one and the same. ;)
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Rob C

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Re: Sebastião Salgado: The Colorado Plateau's National Parks in Photos
« Reply #16 on: March 22, 2012, 01:41:11 pm »


1   For many, it occurs when on the edge, just before touching the very bottom of the unbearable. The time a person has suffer enough and say, I'm done with that, then the solution and the light comes very fast. But for many, the suffering is actually not strong enough, and even give them an identity they don't want to leave. "I've lost my wife, I've lost my job, my country and my health or whatever; should I also lost "my" identity?" Precisely, that's the best to do.  

2   The solution... will NOT come from "outside". It will not come from a shooting with a great model. Because you'll be happy 4 hours, the moment of the shooting you'll feel alive, and then, when the light's off, you'll feel even more dead and depressed than before.

 


Fred, yet again I find myself wishing your birth language was English. Then, I’m glad it isn’t because then you would not have the mind that you have.

To address two of your points:

1. Identity. How true. Many years ago, my mother made her first attempt to come and live in Spain. She was fluent in the language because she was in school there as a youngster. Yet, one day some weeks after she had sold up and moved out here, I met her in tears. I asked her what on Earth was the matter, and she replied: I feel I have lost my identity. She went back, bought another house and returned to her old life. I can identify with that, no pun  intended.

2. Post-shoot blues. That used to happen to me even when I was busy and still running a studio; the lonely, white Colorama roll when the door closed behind the models was the saddest thing in my life at those times. Coming home from a shoot abroad was even worse: it felt like the end of the world. That tight little group was like a commando unit: we’d hit the beaches, do the shots and probably break all manner of local bye-laws in the process, live way beyond our natural economic means and then bang!, the mundane would open its arms again as we landed in Heathrow, Gatwick, Glasgow, Palma or wherever. You can’t lose the craving for the sense of excitement, the addiction, just because circumstances change.

Some say it’s better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all; I wonder.

;-)

Rob C
 

Slobodan Blagojevic

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« Last Edit: March 22, 2012, 09:12:54 pm by Slobodan Blagojevic »
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tom b

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Re: Sebastião Salgado: The Colorado Plateau's National Parks in Photos
« Reply #18 on: March 23, 2012, 12:40:19 am »

I have only seen film prints fro SS. These images look over processed and I wondered if he had gone over to digital. A quick google search and I found this page which shows that he has gone from Leica film to Canon digital. Page 3 of the article has the technical details (camera, lenses, printing details etc).

Cheers,
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Rob C

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Re: Sebastião Salgado: The Colorado Plateau's National Parks in Photos
« Reply #19 on: March 23, 2012, 05:48:49 am »

Slobodan - Homage.

Reminds me of What's New, Pussycat, where psychiatrist Peter Sellers is in the Crazy Horse in Paris when Peter O'Toole, his patient, bumps into him and asks him what he's doing there. Sellers quickly says: I'm following you, to which O'Toole says: If you were following me, how come you were already here? Seller's answer: I was following you from the front.

Your copyright is '06... ;-)

Love that tonality: reminds me of ice cream.

Rob C 
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