CSC, frustrated with AF lens choices.

[scooby70]

Firstly a bit of history, in the past I had film SLR's, rangefinders and compacts. Moving to digital with a Fuji bridge that quickly frustrated me I settled on Canon DSLR's and a few compacts. When MFT appeared I bought a GF1 but after an initial honeymoon period I realised that I really didn't like shooting with the back screen, didn't want to use it with an add on VF (I thought it'd ruin the compact aspect of the camera and maybe get snapped off) and so picked up a G1 and now use it with a Voigtlander 25mm f0.95 manual lens.

I'm not really a fan of Panasonic's lenses. I have a 20mm f1.7 and a 14-42mm and they're competent enough but horrible to use manually IMVHO. The fly be wire focus system needs to be turned for what seems forever and there are no markings at all so zone focusing or even setting the lens to infinity is not a pleasant user experience, IMVHO. I've now accepted that Panasonic will never bring out lenses that'll interest me so I've started looking at the Nex 7 and Fuji X Pro 1.

The Nex 7 looks good but there isn't a single Sony E mount lens that I'd want to buy plus again they have no markings. The Fuji seems to have three nice primes and I could imagine owning them all but again they don't have markings and I've read that they have the dreaded turn forever fly by wire focus system. So, if I go for the Sony or the Fuji I'll probably still end up using a manual lens.

All I want is a compact camera to use when I don't want to use my DSLR with the choice of a couple of nice AF primes to replace the nice compact 35mm cameras and lenses I used to use. If it's APS-C then something like a 30/35mm f1.4 and a 50/60mm f2.8 macro would be a very nice starting point. Give me lens markings and manual friendly focus and my money would be out of the bank and spent. I know that asking for AF lenses is asking for something that my film cameras didn't have but it doesn't seem a lot to ask, but no one offers what I want. So, my choice is to forget about setting the distance or infinity and aperture and shooting and somehow getting to like these no marking fly by wire AF lenses or continue to use a manual lens/es.

Am I just hopelessly stuck in the past I wonder. Have you guys with CSC managed to get used to shooting with modern AF lenses?

[NikoJorj]

It may well be that you're looking for MFT primes... I'm thinking to the (highly praised) 45/1.8 Oly, and you already got a 20 and a 25mm?
For zone focusing, if you can configure a button on the camera to quickly toggle between AF and MF, just let the AF focus on something at a suitable distance and switch to MF.

Otherwise, forget AF altogether and go for legacy lenses (voigtlander in M mount often seem like a bargain).

[scooby70]

Legacy lenses or modern AF lenses made by others and used as manual lenses via an adapter seem the only option to continue shooting the way I used to. I live in hope that someone will bring out some AF lenses to my liking but in reality I think that the world has moved on. Shame.

[RichDesmond]

...Have you guys with CSC managed to get used to shooting with modern AF lenses?

I have no problem with it. The AF system on my GF1, with either the 20mm 1.7 or the 14-42mm kit lens, seems to work exceptionally well. Fast, quiet and accurate. Sports and BIF shooters say it doesn't track well, but that's not an issue for me

[scooby70]

Yes. I have both the 20mm and 14-42mm and their AF is fine, my issue is with using them manually. There's a lot of turn with no end stop and they don't have any markings which makes zone focusing or even selecting infinity as I would do with a manual lens pretty much a PITA. What I'd really like is a range of AF lenses that are pretty MF friendly. I have 8 lenses for my 5D and all but one have exactly what I want butr I can't but one such lens for my Panasonic MFT, or as far as I can see for the Nex7 (without using A mount via an adapter?) or Fuji X Pro 1.

[theguywitha645d]

Why not just use AF? What does it matter if you focus with the shutter button or lens barrel? If you don't like to AF at each exposure, perhaps you can put focus on another button. With my E-P1, I have the AFL/AEL button AF in manual focus. The focus is fixed until I press the button again. BTW, the Olympus 12mm has a manual focus ring with object distances.

[NikoJorj]

BTW, the Olympus 12mm has a manual focus ring with object distances.

True, but implementation has been questioned (be sure to read also the featured comments).

[theguywitha645d]

True, but implementation has been questioned (be sure to read also the featured comments).

It is amazing about how not terribly impressed I am about that review. And I did read the comments--not everyone who bought and used the lens agree.

[scooby70]

Why not just use AF? What does it matter if you focus with the shutter button or lens barrel? If you don't like to AF at each exposure, perhaps you can put focus on another button. With my E-P1, I have the AFL/AEL button AF in manual focus. The focus is fixed until I press the button again. BTW, the Olympus 12mm has a manual focus ring with object distances.

I suppose it's just a different way of shooting. Sometimes I'd like to preset the camera by selecting a distance, aperture and possibly shutter speed so that all that has to be done when the shot is to be taken is press the shutter button. This could be landscape/town scape shots using a sort of hyperfocal/resolution technique of for candid type shots when taking deliberate focus would be a little too obvious and possibly even scene destroying. At the moment because I have difficulty using the Panasonic lenses manually I mostly use a manual lens but I'd like the ability to use AF for the shots I think it's appropriate for without having to change lenses.

I realise I'm out of step with what manufacturers are bringing to market so I suspect my photography kit spending money will go on something else. Maybe that's how it should be.

[RichDesmond]

...Sometimes I'd like to preset the camera by selecting a distance, aperture and possibly shutter speed so that all that has to be done when the shot is to be taken is press the shutter button...

I guess I don't see the issue then. The AF is fast enough (in anything better than horrible lighting) that you can use it exactly as you describe. Preset aperture and/or shutter, and instead of presetting focus just let the camera do it for you. DoF with the m4/3 system is usually pretty large, so even if the camera didn't focus on exactly the right spot it's usually not a problem.

[richarddd]

Using old manual lenses, you could line up the distance scale with the aperture scale so that all distances between the marks for the specified aperture would be in focus (using the manufacturer's definition of in focus).

How does one do this on modern lenses, especially if one is not fond of stopping down to the specified aperture and trying to figure out what's in focus?

[scooby70]

I guess I don't see the issue then....

No, you're not seeing the issue, but that's not a critisism of you as I guess it's just a different (and much faster and more discrete, think rangefinder shooting and then try it with a fly by wire lens,) way of shooting and if you've never shot as I used to and how I've described you're probably not going to be able to understand how that style is very difficult with Panasonic's fly by wire lenses (and other makes too no doubt) as they currently are. I suspect that at least some others are in the same mind as me as there are lots using legacy lenses and a percentage will doubtless be doing so to avoid these very issues.

Looking at what's on the market at the moment I've decided that none offer what I want so if I do end up buying a new camera (at the moment that's unlikely) I'll probably end up using a manual lens on it. Any markings may not be accurate considering the change in format but a bit of mental arithmetic and a more manual use friendly focus mechanism will cure most problems, except the continued lack of auto focus 

[scooby70]

Using old manual lenses, you could line up the distance scale with the aperture scale so that all distances between the marks for the specified aperture would be in focus (using the manufacturer's definition of in focus).

How does one do this on modern lenses, especially if one is not fond of stopping down to the specified aperture and trying to figure out what's in focus?

That's part of my problem. As is not being able to guess a distance and pre set the camera. Shooting when the camera has been preset lets you take shots very quickly and (if you want to) without raising the camera to your eye or even looking at it. There's also the problem of using AF and then wanting to dial in a correction, that can take a long(ish) time if the focus ring has to be turned a long way. The Panasonic 20mm for exemple, you could fall asleep trying to focus that lens manually.

[AlfSollund]

True. The AF lenses from Pana and Sony I have tried are not made for photographers, or only made for very limited photo situations. To  use MF is a real pain, both in terms of accuracy and handling. The solution is to purchase legacy manual focus, manual aperture lenses and use through adapters.

[Mjollnir]

True. The AF lenses from Pana and Sony I have tried are not made for photographers, or only made for very limited photo situations. To  use MF is a real pain, both in terms of accuracy and handling. The solution is to purchase legacy manual focus, manual aperture lenses and use through adapters.

Really?  They're not 'made for photographers'?  LOL.

Somebody better go and tell all the photographers out there using them to cease immediately and return them.

[grzybu]

The Panasonic 20mm for exemple, you could fall asleep trying to focus that lens manually.

With my 20/1.7 and GH2 I need to turn focus by about 180 deg to change from about 20cm to infinity and I need about 1s to do this.
It doesn't take more than using MD Rokkor 50/1.4

[scooby70]

Maybe I'm being a little unkind to the 20mm f1.7. I don't like using it though.

AlfSollund, Yes, I've accepted that no CSC maker offers what I want at the moment, and sadly probably never will. I'll probably give the Fuji X Pro 1 a look but as I wear glasses most of the time the lack of diopter adjustment seems an amazing shot in the foot by Fuji as I'm not interested in buying different adjustment lenses for anyone else who may use the camera and like me hates using the back screen. I may look at a Nex 7 and consider manual lenses for it but I think I'll end up keeping my DSLR and using it more and my micro four thirds less and forget about MFT or any other CSC even getting close to replacing my DSLR.

I keep telling myself that I'm not being awkward It's just a hobby for me and as I don't enjoy using the current crop of fly by wire systems I'll just avoid them