Mamiya 210 mm lens ???

[Pesto]

I have not seen much written here regarding the Mamiya 210mm f/4 lens. This is a focal length that would be very useful for me and they are quite inexpensive on the used market as well…perhaps there is a message for me here. Has anyone had any experience with this lens such that they could offer any thoughts or guidance? I would be using it to photograph cats and believe that the necessary stop down metering and manual focusing associated with the 200 APO would be far too cumbersome to make it a consideration.  For what it is worth, I would be mounting it in front of a P40+, not one of the full frame backs.
Thanks in advance!

[TSJ1927]

I shoot with this lens, but not as often as other lenes. It's a very sharp performer, but not for use as a close-up lens  as in "pet photography".  Use of an auxiliary close-up +1 or+2 will help but at what cost in sharpness.  Maybe a 150mm?

[Brian Hirschfeld]

The 150mm and the 210mm are both very sharp (the non LS version of the 150 is what I am referring to). The 210mm is one of my favorite lenses for portraiture photography. I am planning to write a review of it on my website http://www.brianhirschfeldphotography.com, I believe I have more samples, but there is one sample on my flickr here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/brianhirschfeldphotography/6617124477/in/photostream and as you can see, it is very very sharp, and I find it to be a great short telephoto focal length which provides nice compression. Its Ultra-Low Dispersion (ULD) elements make it a very sharp and great lens.

[ondebanks]

I wouldn't interpret the relatively low cost of the 210/4 ULD in the used market as a sign of something lacking in performance. I think it's more to do with it being "sandwiched" between the 200/2.8 APO (more desirable for ultimate image quality and speed in this focal length) and the 105-210/4.5 ULD zoom (that 1/3rd stop difference is negligible, it also has ULD glass, it's also AF, and well, it's a handy zoom).

How important is AF, really? Cats tend to spend a lot of time keeping quite still, do they not?!

FWIW, I use the 200/2.8 APO on my 645AFD, and I don't really miss AF or auto-aperture. Since I usually shoot it between f2.8 and f5.6 and set it to "M" so that it's already in stopped-down mode, it's still bright enough to focus, it gives focus confirmation (f5.6 is the limit), and I don't need to reset anything on the aperture or change a stop-down switch before taking the shot. Compose -> confirm focus -> fire.

Being a "dumb" lens on the AFD, it will work equally well with an extension tube - including an "AF" tube (I have the thinnest, #1 AF tube) - for closer focus.

With the 2x N converter, it's also a fine 400/5.6 lens.

Ray

[Brian Hirschfeld]

The point about focus confirmation is very true. The 645DF does a wonderful job of handling focus confirmation. If you have ever used the 120mm Macro MF D from either Mamiya or Phase you will know this feature works very well, and makes it almost as if you have Autofocus, although at times faster, because speed depends on your hand...

[Paul2660]

I have found the 210 to be a excellent lens in resolution, not as much so in contrast and color.   With a Phase One DF body, you also have to watch
for vibration from mirror slap, especially if the camera is in vertical orientation.   The 210 is a nice weight also, light enough to throw in as an extra
where as the 75-150 is a beast on a long day.    The only problem I have with my 210 is the built in sunshade which on mine is loose and will no longer
stay in place.  As has already been mentioned you can pick one up on ebay for a bargin.

Paul

[Pesto]

Thanks for all the helpful comments.


Ray, you ask:

"How important is AF, really? Cats tend to spend a lot of time keeping quite still, do they not?!"

Not the cats I usually work with, they are more akin to a squadron of screaming banshees...but loveable little banshees all the while !


"With the 2x N converter, it's also a fine 400/5.6 lens."

I already have the 500 f/4.5 APO, so this becomes a moot point.


Given that this is an older lens design, is there any reason to think that the autofocus capture is slower than the more contemporary products?

[Brian Hirschfeld]

The 210mm f/4 ULD is still a product lens......And I honestly haven't noticed any difference in the autofocus capabilities of newer versus older lenses for the Mamiya / PhaseOne systems, they all seem to be equally mediocre.

[Pesto]

The 210mm f/4 ULD is still a product lens......And I honestly haven't noticed any difference in the autofocus capabilities of newer versus older lenses for the Mamiya / PhaseOne systems, they all seem to be equally mediocre.

At best !!
Thanks Brian.
After shooting with my D3 s/x, these lenses can be painful at times when the action picks up a bit.

[Brian Hirschfeld]

I also use the D3s and know exactly how you feel

[ondebanks]

"With the 2x N converter, it's also a fine 400/5.6 lens."

I already have the 500 f/4.5 APO, so this becomes a moot point.

Very moot indeed! You're one of the only people I've come across who have the 500mm APO, but I imagine it excels.
Respect, envy, etc.!

Ray

[Pesto]

Very moot indeed! You're one of the only people I've come across who have the 500mm APO, but I imagine it excels.
Respect, envy, etc.!

Ray

Always have walked a somewhat different path, what can I say. It is indeed a truly wonderful lens and well worth the "inconvenience", such as it is.

[Brian Hirschfeld]

If I ever see that lens, I will buy it in a second. I have never actually seen one for sale.

[ondebanks]

If I ever see that lens, I will buy it in a second. I have never actually seen one for sale.

Jeez Brian, you seem to have unlimited spendability. Wish I was in that position!

Back around 2010, there was one on ebay from Germany for many, many months. The BIN price started at around Eur 7000 and slowly dropped with relistings. It eventually sold for around Eur 4500-5000 IIRC. It was either New or Mint.

Ray

[MarkoRepse]

I haven't used the 645 version of the lens but the RZ 210mm APO is a laser in case you ever want to go that route. Off topic, could you post some samples from the 500APO in the image thread? I'm sure a few people here are interested how it performs

Brian, here is one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/MAMIYA-500MM-f4-5-APO-LENS-645-NEVER-USED-MINT-/120869704679?pt=Camera_Lenses&hash=item1c246553e7

[ondebanks]

Brian, here is one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/MAMIYA-500MM-f4-5-APO-LENS-645-NEVER-USED-MINT-/120869704679?pt=Camera_Lenses&hash=item1c246553e7

Well there you go. I couldn't see that one from my location (ebay.ie) as the seller won't ship it outside the US.

Ray

[Brian Hirschfeld]

I haven't used the 645 version of the lens but the RZ 210mm APO is a laser in case you ever want to go that route. Off topic, could you post some samples from the 500APO in the image thread? I'm sure a few people here are interested how it performs

Brian, here is one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/MAMIYA-500MM-f4-5-APO-LENS-645-NEVER-USED-MINT-/120869704679?pt=Camera_Lenses&hash=item1c246553e7

Thanks, I think I may want that ;p

[Gary Ferguson]

I really like the 210mm. Absolutely no image quality problems, it's relatively light, affordable, and it gives useful additional reach beyond the 150mm. Some specifics are that it's very resistant to veiling glare, a light source in or just out of the frame won't reduce the background blackness.

Furthermore it's the longest lens that I've even a chance of using handheld, I also use the 300mm apo but that for me has always been strictly a tripod optic.

[Brian Hirschfeld]

I really like the 210mm. Absolutely no image quality problems, it's relatively light, affordable, and it gives useful additional reach beyond the 150mm. Some specifics are that it's very resistant to veiling glare, a light source in or just out of the frame won't reduce the background blackness.

Furthermore it's the longest lens that I've even a chance of using handheld, I also use the 300mm apo but that for me has always been strictly a tripod optic.

I use the 300mm f/4.5 apo as well, and I have a quick release plate eternally mounted to its tripod collar ;0

[Brian Hirschfeld]

Jeez Brian, you seem to have unlimited spendability. Wish I was in that position!

Back around 2010, there was one on ebay from Germany for many, many months. The BIN price started at around Eur 7000 and slowly dropped with relistings. It eventually sold for around Eur 4500-5000 IIRC. It was either New or Mint.

Ray

I had been watching that 500mm f/4.5 for a couple of days, and saw it go through a couple of auctions with no interest. Contacted the seller with an offer, which he declined, and then it sold. However I am in Hong Kong now, and found a BRAND NEW Mamiya 300mm f/2.8 APO in a store, suffice it to say it is now mine, and I got it for less then you'd pay for a used one in worse condition. Now I can't wait to get it home and put it on the 645DF!