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Author Topic: The Most Dangerous National Park?  (Read 27251 times)

Slobodan Blagojevic

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The Most Dangerous National Park?
« on: February 28, 2012, 02:49:21 PM »

Apparently, Arizona's Organ Pipe Cactus National Monument, as per this article.

francois

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Re: The Most Dangerous National Park?
« Reply #1 on: February 29, 2012, 02:55:20 AM »

A few years ago, I was warned by a Ranger that it wasn't a safe place to shoot at night. Clearly, the situation hasn't improved, quite the contrary!

 :(
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Francois

langier

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Re: The Most Dangerous National Park?
« Reply #2 on: February 29, 2012, 12:13:22 PM »

Last trip in 2005, the main loop road was closed. Along the short loop road by the visitor's center, the gullies were filled with trash, tracks, other artifacts of passing hordes of migrants. My previous trip in the 1990s was without restriction and without the dishevel and trash. It's a shame that it has got to "pot"...

While photographing along that road during that last trip, we saw more Border Patrol vehicles than tourist vehicles. To top it off was the "air show" with a helicopter trying to spot the "UDAs" and attempt to herd them for capture.

Toward the end of the article I notice they use the PC term "UDA", to surgar-coat someone who has broken the law, to put it mildly. I wonder if the tides were turned if the other side would be so kind to treat us as "correctly"...
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louoates

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Re: The Most Dangerous National Park?
« Reply #3 on: February 29, 2012, 03:22:15 PM »

I photograph in many Arizona wild areas. I wouldn't even think about doing so without a firearm handy. Too many bears, javalinas, mountain lions, and two-legged vermin around.
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Vladimir Steblina

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Re: The Most Dangerous National Park?
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2012, 11:33:49 PM »

Here is my blog posting on the "disputed lands" of southern Arizona from last year: http://usbackroads.blogspot.com/2011/03/traveling-and-boondocking-in-disputed.html

I suspect the situation has NOT gotten any better.  Several of the large Arizona fires last year were started by illegal aliens moving north.  I talked to a friend working on one of the large fires and he said that folks were moving at night through the fire area!!! 

It is a mess, be careful.
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dreed

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Re: The Most Dangerous National Park?
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2012, 06:38:55 AM »

At least 4 died last summer in Yosemite: 3 were washed over Vernal Falls in July (they were found in November along the Merced) and another fell off the face of Half Done.

Of the three that went over Vernal Falls, two were in the water to cool off/swim and another went in to try and save the other two.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: The Most Dangerous National Park?
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2012, 12:01:20 PM »

At least 4 died last summer in Yosemite: 3 were washed over Vernal Falls ...

We are talking here about dangerous places, not reckless people. The three ignored warning signs and jumped the railings that separated people from the water.

dreed

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Re: The Most Dangerous National Park?
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2012, 03:29:55 PM »

We are talking here about dangerous places, not reckless people. The three ignored warning signs and jumped the railings that separated people from the water.

If Yosemite wasn't a dangerous place then reckless people wouldn't lose their life and those warning signs would not be required.

There are plenty of high cliffs, steep drop offs, etc, where a slip or false step can have serious consequences - and that's along many of the well trodden trails.
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feppe

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Re: The Most Dangerous National Park?
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2012, 03:52:18 PM »

If nature wasn't a dangerous place then reckless people wouldn't lose their life and those warning signs would not be required.

There are plenty of high cliffs, steep drop offs, etc, where a slip or false step can have serious consequences - and that's along many of the well trodden trails.

Fixed it for you.

Paul Sumi

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Re: The Most Dangerous National Park?
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2012, 07:45:53 PM »

dreed

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Re: The Most Dangerous National Park?
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2012, 07:50:31 PM »

Fixed it for you.

Yes, I was tempted to say that myself...
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telyt

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Re: The Most Dangerous National Park?
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2012, 12:17:43 AM »

If nature wasn't a dangerous place then reckless people wouldn't lose their life and those warning signs would not be required.

There are plenty of high cliffs, steep drop offs, etc, where a slip or false step can have serious consequences - and that's along many of the well trodden trails.

Nature isn't inherently dangerous any more than cities are.  People with no street smarts going into a city can easily put themselves in dangerous situations, likewise people with no nature smarts need "don't fall over the cliff" and "don't feed the bear" signs.
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feppe

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Re: The Most Dangerous National Park?
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2012, 07:11:46 AM »

Nature isn't inherently dangerous any more than cities are.  People with no street smarts going into a city can easily put themselves in dangerous situations, likewise people with no nature smarts need "don't fall over the cliff" and "don't feed the bear" signs.

You can't be serious in saying that a city is as dangerous as nature? It might be the case in some third world countries (or whatever the current politically correct way to say that is) and the bad parts of US cities if movies are to be believed, but by and large a modern city is as safe as it can get - nobody needs street smarts just to survive.

fredjeang

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Re: The Most Dangerous National Park?
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2012, 07:56:15 AM »

The Most Dangerous National Park?

Earth. It's (temporarly) full of Homo-Sapiens.
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telyt

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Re: The Most Dangerous National Park?
« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2012, 10:15:28 AM »

You can't be serious in saying that a city is as dangerous as nature?

Stepping in front of a bus is about as dumb as falling over a cliff and equally hazardous.  Most of us through experience recognize the ordinary hazards of city living but a large number of park visitors don't have the experience needed to recognize the ordinary hazards of nature.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2012, 10:18:14 AM by telyt »
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dreed

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Re: The Most Dangerous National Park?
« Reply #15 on: March 03, 2012, 06:47:19 PM »

Stepping in front of a bus is about as dumb as falling over a cliff and equally hazardous.  Most of us through experience recognize the ordinary hazards of city living but a large number of park visitors don't have the experience needed to recognize the ordinary hazards of nature.

Except it isn't the bus that is the hazard, its those electric cars that don't make any noise when they move.
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chez

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Re: The Most Dangerous National Park?
« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2012, 10:00:53 AM »

I photograph in many Arizona wild areas. I wouldn't even think about doing so without a firearm handy. Too many bears, javalinas, mountain lions, and two-legged vermin around.

Sad!
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HSakols

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Re: The Most Dangerous National Park?
« Reply #17 on: March 04, 2012, 10:48:23 AM »

I think this new perception of nature being dangerous comes from our increasing detachment from the outdoors.  Keep in mind there is perceived risk and actual risk. I work with children in Yosemite.  After the deaths on Vernal Falls I had some parents not want their children to walk to the top of Vernal Falls because they perceived it as too dangerous.  Funny, five years ago it wasn't too dangerous but now it is. Increasingly we are keeping our children in bubbles protected from the outdoors. Where the deaths occurred there is a guard rail and a sign that states "DO NOT CROSS OR YOU WILL DIE."  Still that wasn't enough to keep these 16-25 year olds away.  It is only a matter of time that railing is replaced with a high cyclone fence with barb wire.  That will make the outdoor experience more safe.  This was a sad unfortunate event and my heart goes out to their families.  However, I think this happened because young people today have very little experience in the out of doors - they never thought about the fact that they could slip. 

I also see an increasing trend of people bringing fire arms into Yosemite.  These gun toting fools are fearful of the solitude they may encounter on the trail.  The only animal to kill a person in Yosemite was a deer back in 1977 when a five year old was gored by a buck after feeding it potato chips. Now what are dangerous are those California ground squirrels that have been known to carry the plague, but really don't think you need a 45 to protect yourself from them.

 




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Paul Sumi

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Re: The Most Dangerous National Park?
« Reply #18 on: March 04, 2012, 07:24:43 PM »

I think this new perception of nature being dangerous comes from our increasing detachment from the outdoors.

I would actually say the opposite regarding our "increasing detachment from the outdoors," and I agree with Doug's comment earlier about many outdoor visitors lacking the experience to recognize ordinary hazards of nature.

Many people DON'T think the outdoors can be dangerous. That's the only conclusion I can draw from the Vernal Falls deaths.  My understanding is, they not only ignored the railing and signs, they also ignored people yelling at them to get back to safety.  

Paul


  

« Last Edit: March 04, 2012, 07:36:17 PM by Paul Sumi »
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: The Most Dangerous National Park?
« Reply #19 on: March 04, 2012, 07:43:01 PM »

... My understanding is, they not only ignored the railing and signs, they also ignored people yelling at them to get back to safety...

I was at a teenage drug-use presentation recently and the doctor said human brain continues to develop until about age 25. In other words, teenage risk perception is, unfortunately, skewed. It is much more important to be "cool" and a "rebel".

P.S. On a side note (mine) that explains perhaps why one shouldn't marry before that age.

P.P.S. Come to think of it, it explains why one should marry before that age ;)
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