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Author Topic: Nokia 808 = Bye bye medium format!!!  (Read 13351 times)

Anders_HK

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Nokia 808 = Bye bye medium format!!!
« on: February 27, 2012, 10:59:10 PM »

Yes!!! Time to forget medium format, why use it?? Dang, a camera phone with 41MP that should be good in studio for high end fashion shots! It is all about the number of pixels!!! Never mind DSLR, waist of time. My new plan is to buy three Nokia 808 and mount them parallel, thus bringing me near 120MP (less overlap). This is great! Will put money in bank and less weight to carry. For shots that require less than 100MP I can simply demount one of them, point and shoot.  ::)

For sure, in comparison the Nikon D800 E stands out as the joke, does it not???  ;).

Anyone else who will follow??? Please line up!  ;D

Best regards,
Anders
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: Nokia 808 = Bye bye medium format!!!
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2012, 11:26:03 PM »

Hi,

I'm not familiar with the details, but it may actually work. The clue is really that the lens must be optimized for the sensor, if the sensor is a small the lens needs to be optimized for large apertures. Michael demonstrated a couple years ago that small sensor cameras can match MF on medium size prints under benevolent conditions: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/kidding.shtml

Reducing pixel size below 2 microns may make little sense, as I think that's about how long light will diffuse in silicon.

Nokia has a white paper on the phone camera here: http://europe.nokia.com/PRODUCT_METADATA_0/Products/Phones/8000-series/808/Nokia808PureView_Whitepaper.pdf

I just have skimmed trough it, but it seems that they are heavily into binning and it will also be used for digital zoom for filming.

Obviously a small sensor like this will collect fewer photons, so it will not be able to reach very good DR and the image will be noisy. Little doubt that there will some noise reduction going on.

Ultimately, noise is dependent mostly on sensor surface size (really the sum of full well capacity over the sensor area), so a small sensor will always have a disadvantage over larger sensors.

Best regards
Erik


Yes!!! Time to forget medium format, why use it?? Dang, a camera phone with 41MP that should be good in studio for high end fashion shots! It is all about the number of pixels!!! Never mind DSLR, waist of time. My new plan is to buy three Nokia 808 and mount them parallel, thus bringing me near 120MP (less overlap). This is great! Will put money in bank and less weight to carry. For shots that require less than 100MP I can simply demount one of them, point and shoot.  ::)

For sure, in comparison the Nikon D800 E stands out as the joke, does it not???  ;).

Anyone else who will follow??? Please line up!  ;D

Best regards,
Anders
« Last Edit: February 28, 2012, 12:21:11 AM by ErikKaffehr »
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nokia 808 = Bye bye medium format!!!
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2012, 11:46:37 PM »

Yes!!! Time to forget medium format, why use it??

Anyone else who will follow??? Please line up!  ;D

I am in!

I have almost finished the design of a special bracket that holds 9 Nokia 808 in perfect nodal point position so as to generate a 120 mp image with 30% overlap between frames.

They will all be triggered simultaneously which will eliminate any issues.

A small robotic arm will extract the memory cards according to a pre-defined sequence and introduce them in memory card readers automatically as well as press the return key on the Mac to launch the stitching process.

Cheers,
Bernard
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A few images online here!

Anders_HK

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Re: Nokia 808 = Bye bye medium format!!!
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2012, 02:01:02 AM »

@ Bernard,

I am just off the phone with Nokia and Photmatrix, since the Nokia will have 3G there is not need for memory cards. They say they are optimizing stitching for a maximum of 18 x Nokia 808. Sorry have not had time to figure out the number of pixels that would make, I guess depends on the overlap... but HUGE. Since you seem up on contacts with robotics in Japan, any chance they can make a robotic accessory that automatically go out and take professional quality pictures??? That way there will never again be a need to anymore go out and take photos by ourself... just let the stitching device go out and capture!!! Freedom at last!!!!  ;D

I knew it!!! That the Nikon of 36MP would be superseded quick... never expected my 80MP Leaf to be beat by an assembly of camera phones, though... dang.  :o

Choices, choices  ;)
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Ray

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Re: Nokia 808 = Bye bye medium format!!!
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2012, 02:05:01 AM »

I am in!

I have almost finished the design of a special bracket that holds 9 Nokia 808 in perfect nodal point position so as to generate a 120 mp image with 30% overlap between frames.

They will all be triggered simultaneously which will eliminate any issues.

A small robotic arm will extract the memory cards according to a pre-defined sequence and introduce them in memory card readers automatically as well as press the return key on the Mac to launch the stitching process.

Cheers,
Bernard



Sorry! The quality will not be acceptable, Bernard. The 808 has no RAW mode  ;D .

By the way, it's not clear in the White Paper if one can actually download the full 41mp image. Is this not basically an 8mp camera with automatic binning?
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aduke

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Re: Nokia 808 = Bye bye medium format!!!
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2012, 02:16:03 AM »

ROFL!

Alan
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Anders_HK

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Re: Nokia 808 = Bye bye medium format!!!
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2012, 02:24:13 AM »


Sorry! The quality will not be acceptable

Nonsense!!! When 36MP dslr has same image quality as a medium format back, of course the image quality from the Nokia will be no less stellar.

Are you gents with DSLRs planning on upgrading to the Nokia too???   ::)
« Last Edit: February 28, 2012, 02:26:17 AM by Anders_HK »
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ejmartin

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Re: Nokia 808 = Bye bye medium format!!!
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2012, 02:48:03 AM »

Actually the sensor, while small by MF standards, is huge for a phone camera -- 10.8mm x 7.5mm.  As for the use of 40MP in such a small sensor, it makes as much or more sense to oversample spatially as it does to oversample by using 16 bits when the DR is less than 12 stops.
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emil

Christoph C. Feldhaim

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Re: Nokia 808 = Bye bye medium format!!!
« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2012, 03:32:29 AM »

Coming from film, I finally believe these stitching solutions are the way to go after I've been sceptical for many years.
8x10 film is history, Nokia 808 swarm shooting is the future.

Carl Glover

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Re: Nokia 808 = Bye bye medium format!!!
« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2012, 03:48:30 AM »

Wearing a belt made out of the phones should provide excellent panoramas as long as you keep your arms in the air whilst taking the photograph.

MarkoRepse

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Re: Nokia 808 = Bye bye medium format!!!
« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2012, 05:57:51 AM »

Samples here: http://cdn.conversations.nokia.com.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Archive2.zip
I actually find them surprisingly good! Very impressive for a phone
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LesPalenik

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Re: Nokia 808 = Bye bye medium format!!!
« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2012, 07:40:40 AM »

Quote
I have almost finished the design of a special bracket that holds 9 Nokia 808 in perfect nodal point position so as to generate a 120 mp image with 30% overlap between frames.

They will all be triggered simultaneously which will eliminate any issues.

A small robotic arm will extract the memory cards according to a pre-defined sequence and introduce them in memory card readers automatically as well as press the return key on the Mac to launch the stitching process.

While you are at it, how about adding an adapter for Canon 800mm lens? I presume the camera has a tripod screw mount.

Christoph C. Feldhaim

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Re: Nokia 808 = Bye bye medium format!!!
« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2012, 07:45:43 AM »

If they'd scale this to full format and make an M-mount camera under the Zeiss Ikon brand for it ...
With RAW output ...
Just imagine ...
Does anyone remember this awesome Terapixel invisible camera hoax some time ago?
Maybe what appears as Science Fiction today in photography is not as far as we imagine ...

Pete_G

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Re: Nokia 808 = Bye bye medium format!!!
« Reply #14 on: February 28, 2012, 07:49:12 AM »

This is just ridiculous. Surely the best solution is for the phone manufacturers to weld a screw onto the phone so I can bolt it to the baseplate of my Hasselblad, I then have a MF phone in one reasonably neat package.
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dizzyg44

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Re: Nokia 808 = Bye bye medium format!!!
« Reply #15 on: February 28, 2012, 07:52:12 AM »

Wearing a belt made out of the phones should provide excellent panoramas as long as you keep your arms in the air whilst taking the photograph.

With the built in accelerometers that phones have these days, we can fire them off with a simple pelvic thrust!  (imagine everyone walking around looking like Duff-man from the simpsons)
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DeeJay

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Re: Nokia 808 = Bye bye medium format!!!
« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2012, 08:03:02 AM »

Funny post!!!
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Nacnud

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Re: Nokia 808 = Bye bye medium format!!!
« Reply #17 on: February 28, 2012, 08:17:58 AM »

Here's a well written photographer's perspective on the new Nokia.
http://www.onlandscape.co.uk/2012/02/41-megapixel-phone-camera
Pretty amazing findings, the lens appears to be pretty special too.

You guys over the pond may not know of this website; it's run by a group of highly respected UK landscape photographers.
For example, have a look at their recent Digital Back v Large Format Film analysis which they conducted using their own kit in response to an article here on LL.

If Nokia would separate the camera from the phone it would make a heck of pocket camera.
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marfa.tx

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Re: Nokia 808 = Bye bye medium format!!!
« Reply #18 on: February 28, 2012, 09:28:44 AM »

So long Lamborghini, the new Kia is in town....
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richard

Rob C

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Re: Nokia 808 = Bye bye medium format!!!
« Reply #19 on: February 28, 2012, 10:05:22 AM »

Most men, most photographers have this fervent unwavering mindset about sports teams, religion, politics, and cameras all for little longterm benefit.



This is an interesting statement. If you'd clarify, then I'd be able to formulate my own opinion on just where I stand in relation to the above grouping.

By the way, I do qualify because I have a smartphone with camera built-in!

Rob C
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