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Author Topic: Wired Rant: I Love Photography  (Read 8289 times)

RichDesmond

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Wired Rant: I Love Photography
« on: February 24, 2012, 06:31:29 pm »

Anybody else read this?

http://www.wired.com/rawfile/2012/02/rant-i-love-photography/

I quite liked it. :)
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Rhossydd

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Re: Wired Rant: I Love Photography
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2012, 05:22:51 am »

+1   Yes, that's a good point of view. A reminder to keep it all in perspective.
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jalcocer

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Re: Wired Rant: I Love Photography
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2012, 11:21:38 am »

+1, nice article
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Rob C

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Re: Wired Rant: I Love Photography
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2012, 11:25:50 am »

+1   Yes, that's a good point of view. A reminder to keep it all in perspective.


-1

And then at the bottom of it I read: " CEO and Co-founder of PhotoShelter" ...

Rob C

allen3

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Re: Wired Rant: I Love Photography
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2012, 01:44:21 am »

What's wrong with being the CEO and Co-founder of PhotoShelter?

Signed,
The CEO & Co-founder of PhotoShelter
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Rob C

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Re: Wired Rant: I Love Photography
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2012, 05:42:44 am »

What's wrong with being the CEO and Co-founder of PhotoShelter?

Signed,
The CEO & Co-founder of PhotoShelter




Okay - I quote:

"The business of photography is undergoing massive change. People who used to make a ton of money aren’t making the same money any more. Amateurs are giving away photos for free. I totally get it.

But listen. There are so many more incredible photos today than there ever were. And more people consume more photography than they ever did thanks to things like Facebook, Instagram, iPads, blogs, and “best of” compilations. This is the golden age of photography. Everyone takes photos now, and there is inspiration all around us. History is being made, and we’re capturing it.

I love photography."


Read the attitude expressed about the early rewards for photographers (high) and the throwaway alternative attitude about how wonderful the changes. Only someone in the marketing side of contemporary stock would be so glib and so happy with the modern status quo. As an ex-stock shooter, I can tell you that it became pointless financing my own shoots. The destruction of the pricing levels ruined it for me, as well as for a hell of a lot of others who have given up in disgust.

That's what, in my opinion, is wrong with anyone swallowing the article as good news for image makers; makers as compared with sellers, that is. Hell, I wouldn't mind even ten percent of a zillion sales of other people's work. Imagine, not even having to lift a camera.

Cool.

Rob C
« Last Edit: February 27, 2012, 06:00:56 am by Rob C »
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allen3

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Re: Wired Rant: I Love Photography
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2012, 05:04:32 pm »

I wouldn't characterize my attitude as glib.

You're bemoaning the death of stock photography (which isn't our focus, by the way, we build websites). But the death of stock is the result of the proliferation of digital cameras. It was a glut of imagery that made it possible for microstock to create massive deflationary pressure in the industry. I can understand that you're upset about losing that revenue stream, but the flip side is that we have digital cameras which make it easier than ever to create images, and cheaper than ever to creatively experiment.

Stock photography is in a sorry state, but mourning its death is akin to the bike messenger cursing the fax machine, and the fax machine salesman cursing the rise of email.

You can be upset at the state of stock photography, but that hasn't prevented amazing images from being made. Think of how larger, more sensitive sensors allow us to shoot in low light conditions. Everything from light painting to incredible photojournalism has resulted from this shift.

But my point is that none of this should affect your appreciation for a great image. I guess I'm taken aback by an attitude of dismissal just because I wrote it as opposed to anyone else.

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jeremypayne

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Re: Wired Rant: I Love Photography
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2012, 05:17:17 pm »

Allen ... don't mind Rob ... he's a curmudgeon who is of the opinion that any change from his "golden age" is bad.  His perspective is very personal and he's not interested in understanding the world we live in.

We don't have as many farmers as we did in 1850 ... is that a problem?
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michswiss

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Re: Wired Rant: I Love Photography
« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2012, 06:11:09 pm »

I find each of your analogies to be interesting and yet somehow flawed.  The idea of the evolution of bike messenger --> fax machine --> email fails in that it's been the fax machine that's more so fallen by the wayside.  Bike messengers, or couriers still thrive in many, many locales for a variety of reasons. Older business models can, and indeed must thrive despite an apparent successor entering the markets.

Similarly, fewer farmers definitely is a problem.  Economic imperatives of corporate farming have driven diversity out of certain markets.  In point, I think Allen's argument is more of the "Victory Garden" antithesis.  Cost effective gardening, nee photography is within reach of most people, and meets the vast majority of local needs.  It's increased diversity.  More farmers.

Personally, I think what we are seeing is a blossoming of personal ephemera on a public stage.  The plusses and minuses are the same: It's temporal and temporary.    Still, it can be fun and liberating.  It's the shoebox of Brownie prints or slides in the attic the grandparents used to drag out on occasion.  Only now is the grandkids dragging out the website for the grandparents.

I think most on this site agree with the adage that it's the 10 inches behind the camera that makes the shot.  A willingness to place yourself into a situation or create a stage to capture something that would otherwise, most likely, go undocumented or unnoticed.  There's still only going to be a self-selected group that work in and with the medium over a longer period in whatever way excites them.

Is there are commercial market for that?  I don't know, but I think the answer's yes.

jeremypayne

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Re: Wired Rant: I Love Photography
« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2012, 06:39:24 pm »

Similarly, fewer farmers definitely is a problem. 

150 years ago, almost everyone was a farmer and dirt poor.

You may think that was a good thing ... I definitely do not.

I'm done ... this is a conversation that will go nowhere as the emotional "good old days" crap is a religion ...

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Ken Bennett

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Re: Wired Rant: I Love Photography
« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2012, 06:45:40 pm »

Um, I'm a Photoshelter member, and it's not a stock agency. You can market your own photos as stock, if you want (I don't), or you can sell prints, or you can have a nice portfolio site, whatever you want to do with it. It's a nice place to host a photo web site, and deliver photos to clients, etc. But Allen is hardly on the "marketing side of stock" in the way you implied in your post. Like he's some sort of evil parasite sucking the life out of photographers. Not so.

I enjoyed the article/rant. Though I do sometimes get caught up so far in the business/work of photography that I forget what it means to me, seeing great photos brings back that love that first turned me into a photographer more than twenty five years ago.

I suppose I should add something beyond the usual disclaimer, to say that I am only a Photoshelter member and have never met or spoken to anyone there other than a customer service rep once.
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michswiss

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Re: Wired Rant: I Love Photography
« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2012, 06:59:26 pm »

150 years ago, almost everyone was a farmer and dirt poor.

You may think that was a good thing ... I definitely do not.

I'm done ... this is a conversation that will go nowhere as the emotional "good old days" crap is a religion ...



I know you're done with the "good old days" discussion (I wasn't around for them and they weren't likely that good anyway), so i don't really expect a response.  I thought about getting into the 1850's part of your comment but decided to treat it more figuratively. I was thinking more of the advent and domination of corporate farming in developed markets (more of a mid twentieth century thing).  Apologies for twisting your point.

I guess I could summarise my views this way.

- There's no going back.  Anyone and everyone are creating images.  Good ones at that.
- There will remain a place for people who pursue photography as a dedicated vocation or avocation.
- Old business models might not die, but they are going to have to redefine their markets.
- New models will evolve.

But I guess that's all pablum.

Rob C

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Re: Wired Rant: I Love Photography
« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2012, 07:16:21 pm »

1   Allen ... don't mind Rob ... he's a curmudgeon who is of the opinion that any change from his "golden age" is bad.  His perspective is very personal and he's not interested in understanding the world we live in.

2   We don't have as many farmers as we did in 1850 ... is that a problem?



1. Of course any change that changes a golden age to an age of struggle is bad; of course my perspective is very personal - whose persective should I adopt? Yours? Oh - I forgot - you may be one of those magicians capable of objective opinion! Strange - I had always understood that we all lived in the same world... and I sure do understand that!

2. It certainly is. Do we need more IT experts, were you suggesting, more over-educated and unemployable graduates filling the dole queus? Maybe you meant we need more Photoshop experts. Was a time we didn't need GM crops, but that's another pesky trick, now that I remember.

;-)

Buenas noche!

Rob C

Rhossydd

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Re: Wired Rant: I Love Photography
« Reply #13 on: February 29, 2012, 07:09:21 am »

But the death of stock is the result of the proliferation of digital cameras. It was a glut of imagery that made it possible for microstock to create massive deflationary pressure in the industry.
That's one factor.
Another is the attitude of "if it's on the internet, it's free" which has lead to an appalling disregard for IPR amongst some commercial users of imagery.
Another aspect is that amateur photo magazines, and others, have been fostering the "glamour" of having work published "like a pro", to the point where many amateurs aspire to have their work published more than they aspire to paid.
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Rob C

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Re: Wired Rant: I Love Photography
« Reply #14 on: February 29, 2012, 09:45:27 am »

I would imagine many photographers signing up to PhotoShelter would be looking to sell their images as stock? With this in mind perhaps PhotoShelter should place the above quote from their CEO and Co-founder on their front page?



An excellent idea, Keith, quite in line with the open society and the freebie culture on which it develops.

Perhaps I should circulate those in that space whom I know with the news that they are about to be awarded an exciting new statement from heaven.

;-)

Rob C

Rob C

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Re: Wired Rant: I Love Photography
« Reply #15 on: February 29, 2012, 10:50:14 am »

1.   You're bemoaning the death of stock photography (which isn't our focus, by the way, we build websites). But the death of stock is the result of the proliferation of digital cameras. It was a glut of imagery that made it possible for microstock to create massive deflationary pressure in the industry. I can understand that you're upset about losing that revenue stream, but the flip side is that we have digital cameras which make it easier than ever to create images, and cheaper than ever to creatively experiment.

2   Stock photography is in a sorry state, but mourning its death is akin to the bike messenger cursing the fax machine, and the fax machine salesman cursing the rise of email.

3   You can be upset at the state of stock photography, but that hasn't prevented amazing images from being made. Think of how larger, more sensitive sensors allow us to shoot in low light conditions. Everything from light painting to incredible photojournalism has resulted from this shift.

4   But my point is that none of this should affect your appreciation for a great image. I guess I'm taken aback by an attitude of dismissal just because I wrote it as opposed to anyone else.



1.  So what’s so laudable about microstock creating massive devaluation in the industry? Strange logic from any photographer’s point of view if he earns his living with his camera and skills.

I fail to understand any correlation between an industry being ruined and the joy of cheap cameras. Experimentation has never depended on cheapness; it has depended on enthusiasm and creativity.

2. Stock photography is not, actually, dead, it has been kidnapped by reservoir dogs. Bike messengers, e-mail and fax machines are excellent examples of false analogies. Those ‘services’ are not end products, just conduits for the message; photographs are the end products, the ‘message’, the gold being mined. Stock photography still exists and is being used extensively. The problem with stock photography is that its financial basis has been blown away by two(or three) principle factors: desperation/fear on the part of established contributors who feel obliged to swallow their pride and play along; the outlook of stock owners whose only concern or ambition is to possess the stock world and enlarge their share of that market to the point of monopoly. These people are fully aware of the damage that reduced pricing does, but that’s not their pain, it belongs to the saps supplying the goodies. You need but follow the contractual scenarios being played out by the majors to understand that their interest in their suppliers has been reduced to what I’d be inclined to see as the next best thing to contempt.

3.  Why should fine images, startlingly good ones, even, depend on the health of the stock industry? I’ve been around and aware of stock from the days that it was considered nothing much more than a second-string to the other work photographers did, a repository for out-takes, right through the period when some of the best shooters around spent more and more time producing their own work for the big agencies and doing very well, thank you, out of it. Indeed, it was seeing that revenue stream that tempted the business moguls into the game in the first place! You should know more about Tony Stone, about the original Image Bank and similar great operations to understand where the attraction lay for the people who later moved in with big wallets and souls of lead.

Whether sensors have influenced imagery itself has absolutely zilch to do with the ruin of stock; neither has it any the more to do with great images which have always been made by those with talent to do so. None of that follows your logic which seems to be claiming that images in photography have become better  because things in the profession have become worse; I dispute they are better in any way at all! I’m perfectly capable of using my camera at ridiculously high ISO and it does it well; that does not in the least take away from those fantastic low-light images made by men and women with their basic Leicas and Contax cameras in the 50s and earlier. That stance reeks of young-person ego and arrogance, however old you yourself may be.

4.  My appreciation of a great image has nothing to do with this discussion. This discussion is simply about the damage that microstock and cheap deals have wrought upon an otherwise great industry: the marketing of images as a way of life. Specifically, I quote:

"The business of photography is undergoing massive change. People who used to make a ton of money aren’t making the same money any more. Amateurs are giving away photos for free. I totally get it.

But listen. There are so many more incredible photos today than there ever were. And more people consume more photography than they ever did thanks to things like Facebook, Instagram, iPads, blogs, and “best of” compilations. This is the golden age of photography. Everyone takes photos now, and there is inspiration all around us. History is being made, and we’re capturing it.

I love photography."

Giving work away for free, and you “totally get it”;

“This is the golden age of photography” just as it is being destroyed as a profession for many, many people;

“History is being made…” right, and all those wannabes are capturing what, exactly, that’s historically of such great moment?

Yep, a great bit of writing for those who buy into the dream; a load of misleading nonsense for anyone who knows the business reality and its effect upon their life.

But there you go – as the man said, why bother with an old curmudgeon?

Rob C

RichDesmond

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Re: Wired Rant: I Love Photography
« Reply #16 on: March 05, 2012, 09:36:24 pm »

...“This is the golden age of photography” just as it is being destroyed as a profession for many, many people;

“History is being made…” right, and all those wannabes are capturing what, exactly, that’s historically of such great moment?

Yep, a great bit of writing for those who buy into the dream; a load of misleading nonsense for anyone who knows the business reality and its effect upon their life...

Rob, the reality is that new technologies and new business models tend to push out old ways of doing business. Capitalism is at its heart a process of creative destruction. There's nothing wrong, odd or different about the demise of the stock business, it's very much the natural order of things. I suppose to someone astute enough it would have been obvious in the late 90's that it would go away, the combination of digital capture and the internet made that outcome inevitable.

I'm on my 4th career, and the business I currently own is not going to be viable 10 years down the road unless I radically change it. That's the way the world is, you can adapt and move forward, or be a bitter old man shouting at the clouds. :)
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Rob C

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Re: Wired Rant: I Love Photography
« Reply #17 on: March 06, 2012, 04:09:54 am »

Rob, the reality is that new technologies and new business models tend to push out old ways of doing business. Capitalism is at its heart a process of creative destruction. There's nothing wrong, odd or different about the demise of the stock business, it's very much the natural order of things. I suppose to someone astute enough it would have been obvious in the late 90's that it would go away, the combination of digital capture and the internet made that outcome inevitable.I'm on my 4th career, and the business I currently own is not going to be viable 10 years down the road unless I radically change it. That's the way the world is, you can adapt and move forward, or be a bitter old man shouting at the clouds. :)



It was very obvious then; it was why I gave up spending my own money on floating shoots quite some time before that.

However, it wasn't 100% to do with digital: it was much more to do with internecine agency competition driving prices down, coupled with agencies realising they could still keep their figures healthy by squeezing the weakest, unorganized link: content suppliers.  And were they right! (Think farmers, milk and supermarkets and you get confirmation of today's way.)

In fact, was a time it was very difficult to get into a stock agency; in my own case, I got into Stone via invitation inspired by mutual professional users of my images. Folks without track records hadn't much hope - how times change. Now it's all about volume which digital storage allows; in other words, if you sell one shot in a year, that's still grist to the micro mill even though you will starve...

None of which, of course, makes cloud-abuse any less inviting!

Rob C

fike

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Re: Wired Rant: I Love Photography
« Reply #18 on: March 07, 2012, 08:47:30 am »

Rob, the reality is that new technologies and new business models tend to push out old ways of doing business. Capitalism is at its heart a process of creative destruction. There's nothing wrong, odd or different about the demise of the stock business, it's very much the natural order of things. I suppose to someone astute enough it would have been obvious in the late 90's that it would go away, the combination of digital capture and the internet made that outcome inevitable.

I'm on my 4th career, and the business I currently own is not going to be viable 10 years down the road unless I radically change it. That's the way the world is, you can adapt and move forward, or be a bitter old man shouting at the clouds. :)

Rich is expressing the hard truths of business.  Creative destruction is good and necessary. I think a better technology analogy to follow (as opposed to farms and messengers) would be the decline of the letterpress printers. 

As I have said elsewhere, photography (naturally extending to videography) has a great future as a differentiated custom service. The sale of general photography assets will continue to diminish as a profitable venture by itself.  For example, photographing food for a high-end restaurant menu or advertisement is a service that could be very profitable.  Weddings, fashion shoots, or event photography are all services where a great photographer can achieve notoriety and make a good living.  If what you photograph could be done by crowdsourcing, you are doomed.  Adapt to the new realities.  Bemoaning the new reality won't change it.
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Rob C

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Re: Wired Rant: I Love Photography
« Reply #19 on: March 07, 2012, 05:18:03 pm »

As I have said elsewhere, photography (naturally extending to videography) has a great future as a differentiated custom service. The sale of general photography assets will continue to diminish as a profitable venture by itself.  For example, photographing food for a high-end restaurant menu or advertisement is a service that could be very profitable.  Weddings, fashion shoots, or event photography are all services where a great photographer can achieve notoriety and make a good living.  If what you photograph could be done by crowdsourcing, you are doomed.  Adapt to the new realities.  Bemoaning the new reality won't change it.




Well yes, that's always been the case, and where most general practitioners make their pennies.

The problems arise in the more exotic fields (old) where stock, for example, was a great source of additional income from commissioned work. That's pretty much a memory for some, and for others, not even that.

These are not really what you call new realities; the new realities are far more harsh than that; harsh, because they are beyond the snapper's control: he can't get clients to spend money when they can get stuff for almost nothing; he can't tell them why they should choose his more expensive product because it's good, when he's talking with accountants.

That's not new; I always tried to discover who the real decision makers were in a company, but it seems that today's power people are not the same office holders as before: in other words, power has moved from art departments to accounts departments.

It's ironically funny: we used to talk amongst ourselves, as young photographers, about who was established! How quaint a concept that now appears to be. Without that objective, why would anyone in their right mind dream of investing his all in setting up his business?

But hell, we could argue this forever and get nowhere, and that's not even because we might have fundamentally opposed views: I think it's because the world is in turmoil, and confusion has take over and there simply are no sensible answers anymore.

Rob C
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