Which back for a Mamiya RZ67?

[D Fosse]

I work as photographer at an art museum where I've used Nikon dslr's, but I simply need more pixels than the 12 MP files I get out of my Nikons. All too often I find myself stitching 2, 3 or 4 frames to get the resolution I need.

We have a Mamiya RZ67 (120 rollfilm back) that has been collecting dust for some time, with two lenses, a standard 90mm and a 140mm. I thought that was a shame, but now it seems there's money for a new back for it.

So far I have been looking at Leaf Aptus II 7 or 8, and Phase One P30, 40 or 45. The way I see it, there's little point in less than 30 MP. Around 7000 by 5000 pixels, give or take, is about what I need. I'll be shooting raw, using ACR.

So to the question: I'm a bit concerned about sensor size. Some of these backs have 48 x 36 mm sensors, and some have 44 x 33. I don't have much experience with medium format, so I can't quite visualize how a 90mm lens will behave with those sensor sizes. I really do need a "standard" view similar to a 50mm lens in the 35mm format. Would a 44 x 33 mm sensor be a problem in that regard, requiring a shorter lens than 90?

My employer will pick up the bill for this, so budget is not critical as long as I can justify the expense and don't go overboard. I have prepared them for something like $12 000 to $16 000, and they seem to accept that.

One other thing: will these backs fit seamlessly onto the RZ67, or do I need adapters or any other accessories?

Any and all comments are helpful, as this is all new to me. Thank you.

[Doug Peterson]

http://www.captureintegration.com/2009/02/03/focal-length-equivalent-calculator/

That will let you put in the focal lengths you use/understand with a dSLR and it will tell you what lens would be the equivalent with different sensors.

I think you've hit on the backs that are good fits for this. 30-40mp from Leaf and Phase are all going to give you great results in this setting. You may also initially put the Leaf 56 and Phase One 60mp options (Aptus II 10 and P65+) on your list.

You'll need an adapter - which adapter depends on if it's an RZ Pro II or Pro IID body and if it's a V-mount or M-mount digital back. You may need a cable to the lens, or not depending on the same factors.

Just two quick thoughts at the beginning of the research:
- If you buy from a Value Added Reseller they will help you make this purchase process easy (guiding customers through the kinds of questions is my job description). If/when you have any issues they will help you figure them out quickly so that you don't take heat from your employer.
- You may or may not what to make your decision based on what body/lens you already have. In the world of medium format digital the tail often wags the dog; that is to say the cost of a body and lens is often a small part of the process. It may speed things up for you greatly, for instance, to have auto-focus (or for your application more likely manual focus using Focus Confirmation). Also, depending on which combo you go through you may or may not have the ability to trigger the system or change the aperture from the keyboard - which is not at all essential, but is really nice for art reproduction.

One good thing here is that you'll probably want to keep the Nikon (backup and quick shots or a 2nd station as needed). Capture One, which you'll use to tether either a Leaf or Phase One back also natively tethers to Nikon. So you could have one workflow for both cameras. It will also provide you with "LCC" functionally which you can use to quickly and very accurately even-out the light hitting the artwork as well as any variation of color temperature from one head to the next.

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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[Brian Hirschfeld]

You will need an adapter. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/502724-REG/Mamiya_212_107_RZ_Digital_Back_Adapter.html I believe this will work with all of the RZ models and not just the later ones but that should be checked. I would get the PhaseOne they are my preferred choice and it sounds like a none+ version P45 might be your best bet price wise, although you might be able to find a nice deal. 90 would be about normal, since 80mm is a standard 645 lens 90 is slightly wider then standard for 67 which i believe is technically more around 110. 90 is fine, i wouldn't worry about lenses, they are all relatively cheap second hand and fairly inexpensive if you choose to buy new, there are a whole slew of them, from tilt shift to macro, and zooms and everything in-between.

[Mr. Rib]

1. You have a calculator for focal lengths here: http://www.captureintegration.com/2009/02/03/focal-length-equivalent-calculator/ (doug beat me to it)
This way you can confirm how the lenses will act on different sensor sizes.
2. Keep in mind that even with 48 x 36 the crop factor on RZ67 is significant. I don't know if you do reprofuction work only or rather shootaround at exhibitions, but you can forget about real wide angles on RZ67 digital
3. If you own Mamiya RZ PRO II you will need an adapter with a sync cable. Thus, you have to get a digiback in proper mount and a compatible adapter to fit your camera / digital back. Then there's a sync cable which makes the whole system operational. You won't need a sync cable if you are using a Mamiya RZ Pro IID body- you just need an adapter and a back (for instance Phase One P45 in Mamiya AFD mount and a HX701 adapter).
4. If I were you I would go with a P45+. 48 x 36 (you won't get a bigger sensor for your budget), 39 mp count is optimal on RZ- the lenses are really sharp and render nicely with P45; the lenses won't be a bottleneck of the system.
5. Mamiya lenses go for peanuts nowadays; get yourself best lenses for RZ digital. Which lenses are these? Here's the list: 50mm ULD, 65 M/L-A, 75mm short barrel, 75mm shift, 110mm, 140mm macro M/L-A, 180 W-N, the whole APO lineup. Choose the ones you need and get ready to be blown away by results
6. Oh and lastly, keep in mind that this system is heavy and if you want really good results I'd invest in a good head and a tripod. And of course a Mirror lockup cable release, that's a must with a RZ system because of the huge mirror (thus a huge mirror slap effect when you take a photo).

[D Fosse]

Thank you very much all. This is great help in getting me started on the process 

[ondebanks]

6x7 film has a diagonal of 90mm, hence a 90mm was often used as the standard lens with the RZ67 (many preferred the slightly longer and faster 110mm lens, which AFAIK was the default kit standard).

For a 48x36mm back like the P45+ that folks are recommending, the diagonal is only 61mm, so the closest "standard" lens in the lineup is the 65mm (nice to see that it's also one of the "best" as recommended by Mr. Rib above).

If you go with a 44x33mm back, the diagonal of 55mm would suggest the 50mm ULD as the closest "standard" lens, albeit a wide-standard.

I would concur with those suggesting 48x36mm over 44x33mm - a larger sensor just makes more sense with the lens range and focus screen size of the RZ67.

Ray

[D Fosse]

Yes, that makes sense. I'll be on the lookout for a 65mm or thereabouts in time, but for now the 90mm will have to do.

I realize that the price of a lens is peanuts in this context, but I don't want to push this too far right off the bat. A P45+ is already very much in the upper range of what I can expect them to swallow 

[Brady]

You are talking about spending 16k....a used 65mm(the newest one w floating element) can be had for under $500 from KEH.  I actually got one for $300 about 3 years ago.  i dont think youd be rocking the boat too much.

Brady

[Sheldon N]

You are talking about spending 16k....a used 65mm(the newest one w floating element) can be had for under $500 from KEH.  I actually got one for $300 about 3 years ago.  i dont think youd be rocking the boat too much.

Brady

I'll piggy back on Mr Rib's comments about lenses. I've got the 65mm L-A, 110mm 2.8, 150mm 3.5 and the 180mm W-N. All of them are excellent, but I've been particularly impressed with the 150mm. It's incredibly sharp even wide open. The copy I got was in "BGN" condition at KEH.com but looks fine apart from a couple nicks on the lens body. Paid just $80 for it and it's the sharpest lens of the bunch.  I shoot it with a Aptus 22 (36x48mm sensor).

I think between all 4 of those lenses I've only spent around $500.

[D Fosse]

Point taken. Appreciated.

I decided my best strategy was to give management a link to this thread, just so they know I'm not making this up

[yaya]

This image might help

It shows the RZ viewfinder equipped with a mask that has the markings for both the 48x36mm and the 44x33mm sensors and how much they cover inside the 6x7 frame. You can see that there isn't a huge difference between the two sizes

There are many institutes who use RZ and RB cameras for reproduction with 50mm, 90mm and 140mm lenses. The waist-level finder works great when the camera is mounted on a copy stand for quick composition and then you use Live View for critical focus. The rotating adapter is another bonus

Hope this helps

Yair

[D Fosse]

Wonderful, nothing beats immediate visualization.

I took it one step further and put your illustration on top an actual photograph of the camera. With a ruler and calculator I made sure the sizes and relationships are correct, and ended up with this (hope the image comes through).

At the moment I'm shooting film with the camera just to familiarize myself with it (although I haven't found anyone locally who still E-6 processes roll film). I think I should just make a mask and fit over the focusing screen.

Anyway, it seems to me that the crop factor with a 48 x 36 sensor is significant. It feels somehow like "wasting" the camera (silly idea, I know), but I think I'll at least present an argument for a full size sensor at 53 x 40.

[AlDoori]

Anyway, it seems to me that the crop factor with a 48 x 36 sensor is significant. It feels somehow like "wasting" the camera (silly idea, I know), but I think I'll at least present an argument for a full size sensor at 53 x 40.

indeed, you loose quite a bit of the 6x7 format.
you can use the RZ 6x4.5 metal mask for the finder to avoid to get distracted by out of frame objects.

anyway, if you do not need autofocus and shorter lenses than 50mm, a tripod based RZ is a very solid platform for digital backs.

[titusbear]

here is a link re: an actual project using a Mamiya RZ body with digital back...

I'm sure if you contacted the Morgan and/or the project technical people directly
you'd be able to get some credible info...

http://www.themorgan.org/collections/works/gutenberg/humi

[scott2012]

Thank you very much all.

[z0624]

Not sure if they are still available but I replaced my RZ focus screen with a Bill Maxwell Hi-Lux screen that has the sensor crop etched into it.   It's brighter than the original screen and the etched crops are really nice. 

[D Fosse]

Where would I get that? (I should probably say that I'm in Norway; but the logic of the global market is such that orders from the US usually arrive quicker than orders from another city in Norway... )

Since there's no autofocus on this thing, a brighter focusing screen would help in any case. But I've always liked screens with a grid; so perhaps a mask is a better option so as to not confuse things too much.

It'll be a few weeks before we can place the order for the back anyway, the expense has to be formally approved first. But that gives me the luxury of getting the little things right before we purchase.

[z0624]

Where would I get that? (I should probably say that I'm in Norway; but the logic of the global market is such that orders from the US usually arrive quicker than orders from another city in Norway... )

Since there's no autofocus on this thing, a brighter focusing screen would help in any case. But I've always liked screens with a grid; so perhaps a mask is a better option so as to not confuse things too much.

It'll be a few weeks before we can place the order for the back anyway, the expense has to be formally approved first. But that gives me the luxury of getting the little things right before we purchase.

I believe this is what I used to contact Bill directly a few years back.  http://www.mattclara.com/maxwell/index.html 
The other option for a brighter focusing screen with etch marks is Brightscreen (www.brightscreen.com) which may be a better option in Norway as I believe you really have to call Bill via phone since he didn't have a strong online presence.  I did my transaction on the phone with him.

[D Fosse]

I'll take a look at that. Brightscreen looks promising