True B&W (bowhaus) on Canon IPF 9100

[marcsitkin]

Has anyone had experience with this program. I've downloaded a demo and started testing, and run in to an issue with banding.

I'm using Scott Martin's B&W evaluation image, and getting banding in the gradient.

I'm using one of their preset profiles on Moab Entrada Natural Paper.

A print made via Qimage and the Canon driver on Monochrome mode shows no banding in the same test image.

I've found a few others with this issue in various discussion groups, and wonder if a solution has been found beyond adding noise to the image.

Overall, I've not found a compelling reason to go forward with this software (yet) and wonder what others find to be robust solutions to B&W printing.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

[Light Seeker]

I ran the evaluation version a few months ago and liked the kind of controls that I saw. You can indeed limit printing to the black / gray channels only, which is great since Canon has done a good job neutralizing the inks (in the 8300 in my case). TBW also offers a lot of control via curves, etc. so some nice toning / split-toning should be possible.

What True B&W lacks is a published methodology to build curves / "profiles" for your paper of choice. This would require some trial and error to work out. Unfortunately, the evaluation version did not allow me to experiment in this area.

I suspect you're seeing banding because the profile supplied with True B&W is not linearized for Entrada. I addressed that using QTR's CreateICC utility and my ColorMunki on my test paper, and was able to make some really nice test prints. I made the same prints using Canon's Monochrome driver and it became really clear how much of a colour cast there is when I layed these prints next to the TBW prints.

I believe that John Dean ("deanwork") is using TBW now, so have may have some insights to offer.

Terry.

[marcsitkin]

Thanks for your reply. Could you elaborate on how you used QTR's make ICC utility to improve your results with TruB&W. Were you able to do this while using the demo version?

[KeithR]

From The Agnostic Print, An opinion by Jon Cone based upon the article of the same name published in the Jan/Feb 2012 issue of View Camera Magazine.
http://theagnosticprint.org/the-state-of-the-state-of-the-arts-in-black-white/#more-963

[deanwork]

I'm using it with the 8300 and even with their generic curves I see great linearization on both matte rag and gloss fiber media.

You certainly can make your own curves by linearization with an Eye One, and they suggest you take their generic set ups, such as for Polished Rag, and whatever they have for matte rag and relinearize that curve for whatever brand of media you are using, but even their curve works well with the Harmon. You can also see exactly what color inks are used if any. For bw with both matte and gloss fiber their neutral set up is really neutral and it is only using three inks, Black, light black, and light light black.

I'm using this with the Harmon Baryta paper and the warm version of it which is just great with both neutral and warm settings.

I have absolutely nothing to complain about with the result on my Canon. My only complaint about TBW is their lack of a good tutorial on what it will do, they have almost no documentation and the video tutorial is super basic. But they have stripped down the interface to be extremely simple for a wide range of users. It's really pretty much a no brainer. I don't know how to do any split toning with it like QTR, but since I don't do that I don't even think about it. Personally I thank Canon for letting them do this because it is nice to have a grayscale 16  bit workflow that is so simple to use. It is designed to work very similarly to the Canon plug-in. That was probably what Canon insisted on.

John

[Light Seeker]

Could you elaborate on how you used QTR's make ICC utility to improve your results with TruB&W. Were you able to do this while using the demo version?

Do you have a spectro? As John notes, if you have an Eye One you can work directly with TBW (not sure about the demo version however). If you have a ColorMunki or a Spyder you can use the QTR CreateICC utility. Keith Cooper has a good article that shows how to do this . . .

http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/article_pages/printfix_pro_for_bw.html

Since TWB is a stand-alone application, you must "apply" the QTR CreateICC profile to your image with Photoshop (e.g. Edit / Convert Profile) and save the file. Then you can load it in TBW and print the image.

Terry.

[marcsitkin]

Many thanks to all who have responded. Lots of helpful information, and I greatly appreciate it.

I finally got the TBW software and my EyeOne Pro hooked up and working. I think I'll buy the software, but I'm amazed that two calls to Bowhaus tech support couldn't yield any advice on how to use a spectro to linearize the software. Would have saved a couple of hours.

Hopefully, once linearized the banding issue in the test target will go away.

I find the possibility of using the QTR profiling as part of the printing process intriguing. I've never really had luck with making fine color judgments based on the preview image from a RIP. One big concern for me when I do print for pay work is being able to repeat what I did down the road. The QTR profiling may be key.

Once again, thanks for all of the responses.

[deanwork]

Their tech support can be slow but usually when they do email you they are very helpful. Be polite and complementary and you'll get a better response.

My take on it is if we paid 2 to 3 times more for the software we'd get rapid tech support and better documentation. But it is so stable on this platform and easy to use that once your going your going and there is no big learning curve. Compared to Studio Print is practically free. We can't compare anything to QTR because Roy had done this as a labor of love and it's just amazing how useful it is with our Epson printers. As to soft proofing of monochrome with icc profiles, I personally don't do it because I feel bw print color is just too subtle to ever seen on even the best displays ( just my opinion and others  certainly like to do it, especially with split-toning). They say they are eventually going to come out with more curves for various papers but I wouldn't hold my breath. Your better off making your own anyway, more accurate.

john

[Scott Martin]

I've been making QTR profiles for a variety of grayscale processes for years now and love the results. FWIW, I just released an article on using XRite's free ColorPort utility (instead of Measuretool) for the 21 and 51 step grayscale measurements. I have the files and an updated grayscale profiling target on my downloads page. Hopefully this will make it easier for you.

http://www.on-sight.com/2012/02/22/using-colorport-for-qtr-grayscale-and-alt-process-measurement-and-profiling/

http://www.on-sight.com/downloads/

Finally, yes it's darn hard to get that synthetic gradient perfectly smooth. You might not want to hear it but the photographic gradients are much more important. If the photographic gradients are smooth then your photographic images will also be perfectly smooth. Take that FWIW.

[marcsitkin]

Hi Scott-

Thanks for your pointers. I read that article, and tried out the colorport utility with minimal success. After installing, I end up with an installation that seems to be lacking functionality. Tab's are not labled, lot's of blank interface area's, no audible signal on reading a patch. I can't believe that this is normal.

Measure tool seems to work a bit better. When I get some time, I'll do a bit of trouble shooting.

That reference print gradation is tough. What's interesting to me is that the Canon monochrome driver rendered it perfectly.

Like anything, it's two steps forward and one back....

[Scott Martin]

I had a blank tabs installation as you describe a while back. You might download the latest version and try again. While MeasureTool is discontinued and doesn't work on the Mac, it should continue to work for a while on Windows. Use what you like. Those QTR profiles are cool! Check out this article that contains a soft proofing screen grab for cyanotype printing:

http://www.on-sight.com/2011/07/02/digital-negatives-for-alternative-printing-processes-a-new-elegant-approach/

Yes, Canon's Monochrom Photos mode does render that greyscale well doesn't it? Today's drivers have incredible built in calibration so the need for 3rd party drivers and RIP has certainly diminished and I enjoy the simplicity of an OEM driver when it does what I need it to do.

[Jeff Magidson]

I have been testing this software, it is really wonderful to be able to lay down 3K ink (only) and let the paper base set the tone! I am concerned that not many people are using this software... I want to see it further developed and supported. A few more built in profiles for the 8300 and better documentation would be very helpful.

Oh... the dither... she is beautiful!

~ Jeff