Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: working with very large canvases  (Read 3088 times)

mstevensphoto

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 448
    • Denver Commercial Photographer
working with very large canvases
« on: February 17, 2012, 05:46:13 pm »

Hi all,
   I have  a request for what will likels be a 40x96" canvas piece. to date I've only used the IG Wrappe system. Given the materials involved I need this to be right on the first try. can anyone speak to how hard it would be to wrap an image of this size, any special considerations and generally whether this is an outsource it or do it yourself project? I just need one very large one and a bunch of 24x30's that I'm totally comfortable doing.
Mark
Logged

dgberg

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2753
    • http://bergsprintstudio.com http://bergscustomfurniture.com
Re: working with very large canvases
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2012, 06:22:24 pm »

If you really need it 40 x 96" it would be easier to cut 1/2" gatorboard for your substrate and miracle muck it down. Then just get someone to frame it if you do not do that yourself.
If you want to gallery wrap it you should use the 2" deep bars with at least 2 braces on the back.
First you need access to 2" 8 foot plus length bars and someone to put them together for you.
You will need to stretch this by hand,a real fun job.
These large sizes can really get slack with the seasonal changes,another reason to do the gator mount.
 If you have a professional mounter that you know,this may be the time to farm this out especially if you have never done one before.
Final important note. If you have a 44" printer 38" is about as big as you can go for the face if you are doing a gallery wrap on 2" bars. 2" for the side,1" canvas on the back = 3" you lose for each side.  44" -6"=38"
Again another reason for gator mount!
« Last Edit: February 17, 2012, 11:06:23 pm by Dan Berg »
Logged

Justan

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1928
    • Justan-Elk.com
Re: working with very large canvases
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2012, 06:42:14 pm »

I vote to outsource.

I've done a few roughly 20x70 wraps using IG Wrappe (sold by BC) and wasn’t happy with the results. With bigger wraps the design limitations of the IG Wrappe tend to shine through.

The IG Wrappe doesn't permit what I consider a really tight wrap and as the print scale goes up, the lack of tension shows. And then there are longevity related issues related to using adhesive tape and glue and also possibly stapling. The approach begs for problems down the line.

It’s possible the bars would be okay if they were stretched and stapled in a more traditional way rather than as the video shows. I haven't tried it that way.

I abandoned using this approach for bigger pieces and do pretty much what Dan suggested, using miracle muck on mighty core and then putting a frame around the results.

The IG Wrappe design is great for smaller works.

bill t.

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3011
    • http://www.unit16.net
Re: working with very large canvases
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2012, 06:51:24 pm »

I Mucked a 35.5 x 92 canvas to some 3/16 Gator this morning, took less than 15 minutes.  No cussin', no swearin', no fearful anticipation, no nothin'.  I never doubted it would be 100% successful.  It's still got a little warp but by tomorrow morning it will be as flat as a board.  Will look drop-dead-gorgeous in some 4.5" wood veneer moulding, Peter Lik is so afraid of me.
Logged

KenBabcock

  • Guest
Re: working with very large canvases
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2012, 07:16:47 pm »

I did a few large pieces roughly this size just before Christmas.  1 3/4" stretcher bars with some bracing and those suckers weren't moving.

The process of stretching this large is not as painful as it sounds.  Kinda fun actually.  The real pain going this large is shipping or transporting.  That's when you can complain.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2012, 07:20:06 pm by Ken Babcock »
Logged

Johnny_Boy

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 133
Re: working with very large canvases
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2012, 07:42:16 pm »

I Mucked a 35.5 x 92 canvas to some 3/16 Gator this morning, took less than 15 minutes. 
Bill I am surprised that you did not go with 1/2 Gator at that size! :) You think 3/16 will hold it well?
Logged

bill t.

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3011
    • http://www.unit16.net
Re: working with very large canvases
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2012, 08:01:23 pm »

Yes, I think 3/16 is ok right up to that size, but not bigger.  Have plenty of those big 3/16 inchers out in the field with no issues.  The fallback plan is that if any of those start warping, I can glue wood stiffeners on the back.  But I don't think that will ever happen based on the track record so far.

That particular one is in a big, really rigid wood frame so the print contributes no structural strength to the package, it's just along for the ride and is totally unstressed.  In cases where I use smaller or more flexible moulding I would choose 1/2" Gator to make the print the main contributor of structural integrity, and in those cases I sometimes hang the piece from the Gator rather than the weaker frame.  But from an economic point of view it's usually smarter to put money in the frame where it will help make the sale.
Logged

mstevensphoto

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 448
    • Denver Commercial Photographer
Re: working with very large canvases
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2012, 12:57:34 am »

why gator vs masonite over a wood frame?
the more I think about this the more I think Miracle muck is the right application. I'm assuming that the easy way to do it is to muck the canvas to the board and then glue on the edges to wrap around - giving the total 2" depth. I was thinking select pine/fir for those edges - any thoughts on what it should be?
thanks as always
Mark
Logged

bill t.

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3011
    • http://www.unit16.net
Re: working with very large canvases
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2012, 02:46:37 am »

Masonite is much, much heavier than gator.  Although also much cheaper.

For the big frame sizes you need a serious hanging system with heavy Masonite, whereas Gator frames usually can hang safely with 2 nails in drywall, not even into the studs.  Masonite needs to be cut with a saw, Gator with a utility knife.  Cutting Masonite creates sawdust. And if you are doing art fairs, heavy frames are a serious PITA.  And Masonite is a pretty heavy payload for picture frame moulding, some extra bracing might be needed.

I know painters who build up sides behind Masonite with the milled 1x2 and 1x3 Oak, Pine, Poplar, etc at Home Depot and Lowes...the so-called "furniture grade" wood.  It's kinda popular right now with starving artists.  That leaves you with a glue joint between two dissimilar, rigid materials which might not be very stable in the long run.  I saw a Masonite box frame that fell of the wall, the glued bottom piece of pine separated by pulling off a thin layer from surface of the Masonite.  I suppose you could drive countersunk screws through the Masonite and into the "sides" but that might show through onto the print unless it was perfect.  It's something I'd personally avoid, doesn't sound stable somehow.  But I do have old rag paper, silver prints that were glued to Masonite in the 70's and they are still OK.

From my perspective, for the effort required to simulate a gallery wrap with 1x2 sides behind a mounted print, I rather just build a frame which would usually be easier.  The frame will cost a little more, but IMHO it adds a lot of perceived value to the product.  Some of the very narrow, deep "shadow box" frames can give you a look that it is vaguely in the gallery wrap aesthetic ballpark.
Logged

Johnny_Boy

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 133
Re: working with very large canvases
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2012, 05:12:01 am »

That particular one is in a big, really rigid wood frame so the print contributes no structural strength to the package, ...

Would poly moulding be able to take that size as well, or wood frame only? Do you brace the poly at that size?
Logged

mstevensphoto

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 448
    • Denver Commercial Photographer
Re: working with very large canvases
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2012, 09:31:40 am »

Bill,
   am I understanding correctly that your suggestion isn't for a gallery wrap presentation over gator, but rather a mount to gator and then a frame to hide the edge and get the 2" depth there? The original specs were for a wrap, I'm sure a framed piece would have a much higher perceived value. I forsee about $200 in extra expense with a frame BUT I wonder if I could talk them int the idea that the art can be changed and the frame stay in place over time.
    If for a gallery wrap presentation, would you build the sides with wood or gator? way it seems like an opportunity for two dissimilar sufaces, wood to gator or side of gator to face. I'm pretty sold on the mount to gator idea, not sure what to do about the side/wrap treatment yet.
Mark
Logged

framah

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1418
Re: working with very large canvases
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2012, 10:31:30 am »

You glue the gatorboard to a strainer frame to make the whole thing 2" deep, then muck the canvas to the gatorboard and wrap as usual.
Logged
"It took a  lifetime of suffering and personal sacrifice to develop my keen aesthetic sense."
Pages: [1]   Go Up