Camera/tripod Shake

[ripgriffith]

I cannot believe I am steadier than my tripod(s)!  Here's the story:  I recently purchased a Sigma AF 70-300mm f/4-5.6 APO MACRO DG for my Sony a65.  I set up to do some test shots out of my window (window open, of course) of the building and activities across the way.  I shot at various focal lengths and shutter speeds, with the image stabilizer both on and off, and using both autofocus and manual focus, using an IR remote control, 2 second delay and every image from about 135mm to 300mm had perceptible image shake, noticeable at full screen size on my 16" monitor, intolerable at 100%.  HOWEVER, duplicating the same shots hand-held, image stabilizer on and at reasonable shutter speeds (1/500th or faster), all the images were acceptably sharp, even at 100%.  I need to mention that I used two different tripods:  an ancient Bogen aluminum heavy-weight and a lighter, but still sturdy Benro carbon fiber model, both with a heavy Manfrotto Ball head; approx. same results with either one.

I'm guessing that the lens, which has an enormous extension at 300mm and no on-lens tripod mount, is picking up some vibration which is damped by my hand when hand-held, but not when on the tripod.  If so, what then to do?  If not, what then to do?

 

[Ken Bennett]

Noticeable image shake at what shutter speeds? Did you lock the mirror up? That has a profound effect at shutter speeds in the 1/4-1/60 range.

The long extension magnifies the problem -- all that weight hanging out like a lever just waiting for any small vibration (from the mirror or the shutter itself.) You can get a long lens support setup like this one, which might help.

[Ellis Vener]

Since Sigma apparently did not see the necessity of having a tripod mount collar on the lens you'll need to devise one for yourself.

Kirk Enterprises, many years ago made a bracket that supported the origianl 80-200mm f/2.8 AF Nikkor and a camera body. The bracket on the camera end connected to the camera's tripod mount socket and the lens end was a ring that fit around the front of the lens. You might be able to find one on eBay.

I see that they have updated it so only the lens is supported: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/568303-REG/Kirk_NC_P80_NC_P80_Lens_Collar.html

Maybe that will work for you.

Another idea is to add an arm to your tripod set up that supports the lens. You'll need something like a Matthews or Avenger Mfer clamp to attach the arm to a tripod leg, something  that is reasonably rigid for the arm with a pivoting  spigot to lock into the Mafer on one ned and a "U" or "V" shaped support support for the lens barrel.

[RobSaecker]

A two second delay might not be enough time for vibrations to stop. Mirror lock up and a longer wait might help, but you'll want to turn off IS while on the tripod in any event.

[ripgriffith]

Unfortunately, in their infinite wisdom, Sony has seen fit to provide the a65 with only a 2 second delay.  As there is no mirror, of course there is no need for mirror lock-up.  What they do have, though, is an electronic first shutter, which supposedly eliminates shutter induced vibration.  IS is turned off, of course, although I could see no difference between shots done with it on and with it off.  So I am at a loss for the cause of this.

[RobSaecker]

As there is no mirror, of course there is no need for mirror lock-up. 

Um, duh. I need to pay more attention to the camera model under discussion, obviously. 

[David Watson]

Really Right Stuff do an excellent long lens support package which might cure your shake!

[urbanpicasso]

This may help

http://english.benro.cn/LB.aspx

[Isaac]

Unfortunately, in their infinite wisdom, Sony has seen fit to provide the a65 with only a 2 second delay.

I don't have an A65 to check, but page 45 of the downloadable SLT-A65/A65V Owners Manual talks says -

"The 10-second self-timer is convenient when the photographer appears in a photo and the 2-second self-timer is convenient to reduce the camera shake."

Maybe 2 seconds is the default which can be changed to 10 seconds.

[250swb]

It is well known that you should turn IS off when the camera is mounted on a tripod, so I'm amazed that when you did that the non-IS hand held shot was still less blurry! I would suspect the end of the lens is flapping about because it isn't held still, a fraction of an inch at the end of the lens equates to a big movement on the image plain, possible compensated for by your hand holding the lens further out. I don't think its a reason to abandon a tripod, just a wake up call to make the camera and lens stready.

Steve

[David Sutton]

For some lens/camera combinations, the only way I can get really sharp images on a tripod is by putting a two kg beanbag on the lens. Perhaps you could try that. It will at least eliminate several possibilities for your problem.

[BernardLanguillier]

Our friend Lloyd Chambers has an interesting article (not free though) about making sharp images. I don't have access now am not 100% sure he has the answers built-in, but that may help.

Some more things you can do that won't cost a cent:
- add some hanging weight under your tripod (that can make a big difference),
- limit the vertical extension of your tripods. Even for 5 series Gitzo or 3 series RRS I try to never extend a tripod more than 2/3 of its max height,
- understand what shutter speeds are causing the worst problem and find ways to shoot outside that range (slower might in fact be better)

Besides, if stabilised hand held works, what's wrong with that for now? :-)

Cheers,
Bernard

[Ken Bennett]

Um, duh. I need to pay more attention to the camera model under discussion, obviously. 

Um, yeah, me too. Sorry. Not sure even then that I would have remembered that it had no mirror.

[marcmccalmont]

Mass damping a tripod by hanging a heavy backpack from the hook has a major effect like Bernard mentioned
1 steady tripod with cood head and lens colar
2 cable release
3 backpack hanging from the hook

let us know the results
Marc

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

If you have antishake on I would expect the kind of problems you describe. I have found antishake on tripod causes a lot of unsharpness.

I have been shooting an A55 SLT with 800 mm lens (400 + 2X) on both Gitzo GLS 3541 and Velbon 630CF with no problems at all.

Here is one with 400 + 1.4X taken this summer: http://echophoto.smugmug.com/Other/Loupe/Loupe/13419304_4g8MCB  (central crop is enclosed)

Best regards
Erik

I cannot believe I am steadier than my tripod(s)!  Here's the story:  I recently purchased a Sigma AF 70-300mm f/4-5.6 APO MACRO DG for my Sony a65.  I set up to do some test shots out of my window (window open, of course) of the building and activities across the way.  I shot at various focal lengths and shutter speeds, with the image stabilizer both on and off, and using both autofocus and manual focus, using an IR remote control, 2 second delay and every image from about 135mm to 300mm had perceptible image shake, noticeable at full screen size on my 16" monitor, intolerable at 100%.  HOWEVER, duplicating the same shots hand-held, image stabilizer on and at reasonable shutter speeds (1/500th or faster), all the images were acceptably sharp, even at 100%.  I need to mention that I used two different tripods:  an ancient Bogen aluminum heavy-weight and a lighter, but still sturdy Benro carbon fiber model, both with a heavy Manfrotto Ball head; approx. same results with either one.

I'm guessing that the lens, which has an enormous extension at 300mm and no on-lens tripod mount, is picking up some vibration which is damped by my hand when hand-held, but not when on the tripod.  If so, what then to do?  If not, what then to do?

 

[stever]

2 sec is not enough delay for most tripod/camera combinations with long lens to settle from pressing the shutter - 4 or 5 seconds usually does it.  mirror lockup should not be required above 1/60 second or so - looking at the lcd at 10X is a good way to evaluate what works.

mass-coupling of camera and lens to your body can be quite effective (one of the techniques Lloyd Chambers discusses) and adding mass to the tripod certainly helps

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

The A65 has no moving mirror, so that is not an issue. Shutter can cause vibrations, too, but I have seen zero issues on my Alpha 55.

I would recommend the use of cable release or remote control to avoid shake from physically actuating the shutter release.

I would say that all camera shake I have seen on my Sony Alphas when shooting on tripod came from image stabilization.

The enclosed image shows vibration with a 50 mm lens at 1/160s with camera mounted on GT3541LS with a decent head. The crop shows a 2:1 image (twice actual pixels).

Best regards
Erik

2 sec is not enough delay for most tripod/camera combinations with long lens to settle from pressing the shutter - 4 or 5 seconds usually does it.  mirror lockup should not be required above 1/60 second or so - looking at the lcd at 10X is a good way to evaluate what works.

mass-coupling of camera and lens to your body can be quite effective (one of the techniques Lloyd Chambers discusses) and adding mass to the tripod certainly helps

[ripgriffith]

Silly me!  I missed the teenie-tiny arrow on the 2sec icon which allows me to switch to 10sec delay.  Guess what?  It makes no discernible difference, 2 seconds or 10 seconds, and Sony, again in their infinite wisdom, makes you choose between the 2sec/10sec delay and the remote control, which only allows for a 2 second delay.  In any event, it seems to make no difference.  I also loaded the tripod with about 2 kilos of a water bottle hanging from the hook, and dampened the lens with a heavy jacket draped over it; no noticeable improvement! 

Since it is very difficult to obtain things like RRS's or Kirk's (or even Benro's) lens support system here in Russia, short of encasing the whole bloody thing in concrete, I seem to be left only with the alternative of hand-held shooting with all of its attendant problems.  My goal, initially, was to be able to shoot at the best possible resolution with this lens at 250-300mm and make full use of the 24mp sensor in my camera.  Hand-held just won't cut it, as we all know. And, apparently, neither will my tripod setup
 

[Scott O.]

As another experiment suggestion, take the camera off the tripod and put it on a large beanbag or some such support.  Duplicate your test.  You will then know for sure if it is the tripod, because you are comparing 2 similar supports which don't involve hand-holding.  Also, the Loyd Chambers articles are great (and well worth the cost), although you will come out at the end realizing there is probably no way you will ever be able to take a sharp image!   

[Isaac]

As another experiment suggestion, take the camera off the tripod and put it on a large beanbag or some such support.  Duplicate your test.

Yes - take the camera off the tripod and put it on the floor and duplicate the test.