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Author Topic: Scratch Disc  (Read 3677 times)

John Hennessy

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Scratch Disc
« on: February 13, 2012, 04:08:06 pm »

Do I really need a separate hard drive for the scratch disc if I have 16GB ram? I am getting a new computer. A third HD would only add about $100, but if it is redundant, then why bother. The biggest file I can find on my current HD is about 1000 megabytes. Of course most are less than that.

Also reading about SSD's. Is there a reliability issue? If there is, then using one as a scratch disc would seem safe.

Thanks

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Schewe

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Re: Scratch Disc
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2012, 04:19:37 pm »

Regardless of how much ram you have, Photoshop will ALWAYS create a scratch disk. Depending on the images sizes (and number of images open), whether or not your reliance on scratch will be critical depends on on what ends up being the free ram (in activity monitor) and your Efficiency % in Photoshop itself. You can set the document window to display efficiency in the lower left. If you EVER drop down below 100% for a normal editing session dictate how important scratch disk will be. Scratch disk usage is MUCH, MUCH slower than doing stuff in ram. By a factor of 10X plus.

So, the question is, how much do you (or will you) rely on scratch disk? Only you can determine that but having a separate fast HD for Photoshop's scratch usually makes sense.

As for SSD, what platform?
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DeeJay

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Re: Scratch Disc
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2012, 05:18:44 pm »

I have 24GB of Ram in a 2010 Mac Pro and a dedicated SSD Scratch. Anytime the computer uses more than 24GB of RAM it calls upon the scratch. I have a heavy workload and actually need 48GB of RAM so the SSD is called upon a lot and it really makes a big difference.
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John Hennessy

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Re: Scratch Disc
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2012, 06:59:53 pm »

How big is your SSD scratch disc?
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Christopher

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Re: Scratch Disc
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2012, 03:47:29 pm »

Best scratch is still a RAID 0 array made out of 3 or better 4 normal HDs. A SSD is not much faster, but costs a lot more.
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Christopher Hauser
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DeeJay

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Re: Scratch Disc
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2012, 09:32:27 pm »

How big is your SSD scratch disc?

OWC Mercury Pro RE 100GB.

Go to photoshop Info palette and monitor your scratch size to find out what size you need.
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Farmer

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Re: Scratch Disc
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2012, 11:25:29 pm »

I recommend taking a look at this message (and the end of that whole thread):

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=59456.msg504243#msg504243

Steve's comments are very pertinent.
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Phil Brown

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Re: Scratch Disc
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2012, 01:16:22 am »

I have 48GB of ram and I use a dedicated RAID-0 array for scratch disk, and other temp storage. i am planning to expanding it to an 8 Drive Array in Raid-0, and later add another 48GB of ram

So yes, scratch disk on a separate disk or array is definately recommanded I would say.

Henrik

PS: Thats SSD arrays
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Steve Weldon

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Re: Scratch Disc
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2012, 01:20:37 am »

I have 48GB of ram and I use a dedicated RAID-0 array for scratch disk, and other temp storage. i am planning to expanding it to an 8 Drive Array in Raid-0, and later add another 48GB of ram

So yes, scratch disk on a separate disk or array is definately recommanded I would say.

Henrik

PS: Thats SSD arrays
I'm curious.  What number and size files are you rendering and can you give us a clue to your work flow? 
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tived

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Re: Scratch Disc
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2012, 01:30:49 am »

Hi Steve,

just a quick reply - I use my machine mainly to make stitch pano's so file are multiples of Gigabytes. I also do retouching for other photogs

Machine is currently only -
Dual Xeon 5650 @ 4.2Ghz
6x8GB Kingston ECC (will be adding another 6x 8GB) 96GB is max i think - and i can't afford 16GB sticks ;-)
All storage is RAID-0
OS: 2x R0 SSD Corsair Sata-II (to be upgraded to 6-8x R0 SATA-3)
TEMP/Scratch: 3x R0 SSD ARAM SATA-II (to be upgraded to 6-8x R0 SATA-3)
Storage: 2x 4x 1TB Black Caviar (to be upgraded to 8x 3TB)
GPU: 460GTX ASUS

the idea behind this is the have the data flow through the system as it is being processed as fast as possible - Storage is the greatest bottleneck as I think we can now all agree on - but my project here is limited by $$$$ available had a quiet year last year.

I will be interested to hear what you have to say about this setup - all in a Lian Li case 2120 (Black) with an Antec 1200 PS

Henrik
« Last Edit: February 17, 2012, 01:32:29 am by tived »
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Steve Weldon

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Re: Scratch Disc
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2012, 02:04:12 am »

Hi Steve,

just a quick reply - I use my machine mainly to make stitch pano's so file are multiples of Gigabytes. I also do retouching for other photogs

Machine is currently only -
Dual Xeon 5650 @ 4.2Ghz
6x8GB Kingston ECC (will be adding another 6x 8GB) 96GB is max i think - and i can't afford 16GB sticks ;-)
All storage is RAID-0
OS: 2x R0 SSD Corsair Sata-II (to be upgraded to 6-8x R0 SATA-3)
TEMP/Scratch: 3x R0 SSD ARAM S
ATA-II (to be upgraded to 6-8x R0 SATA-3)
Storage: 2x 4x 1TB Black Caviar (to be upgraded to 8x 3TB)
GPU: 460GTX ASUS

the idea behind this is the have the data flow through the system as it is being processed as fast as possible - Storage is the greatest bottleneck as I think we can now all agree on - but my project here is limited by $$$$ available had a quiet year last year.

I will be interested to hear what you have to say about this setup - all in a Lian Li case 2120 (Black) with an Antec 1200 PS

Henrik

Hello Henrik -

An impressive system.  If this system saves you even 4-5 hours a week over a lesser system it will certainly pay for itself, assuming you are working professionally.  Personally I'm big on saving as much time as possible on the computer so I can use that time for family and other important parts of my life.  Waiting on a computer isn't a regret I want to have when the time comes for me to look back over my life..  :)

I have that Lian-li case, it sure has a lot of drive bays. :)

Looking at your system and considering the work you do, I see a few areas I might do differently.

a.  I do over clock on my personal machines when I can feel comfortable, but only when it can be done with 100% reliability.  As a rule I don't recommend over clocking to my clients, instead I discourage it.  Generally I don't consider it worth the hassle, risk, or expense of water cooling.. and air cooling at your speeds would be riding the edge and the fan noise is something I personally abhor. 

b.  I didn't see a HBA listed for your RAID's, you are using a motherboard controller?  You are probably aware this consumes CPU/RAM resources, just about as much as you're gaining with over clocking. 

You can certainly add a quality HBA to improve both the performance of your RAID and machine overall, but have you considered OCZ's Revo drives?  They are essentially RAID O arrays on a single PCIe card and their performance is very hard to beat.  In addition their accelerators relieve the burden on the CPU for yet more overall system gain.  It is a lot cleaner way to go.   

You didn't list your motherboard, but if you go with Revo's you're limited by the PCIe slot availability, so if designing a system from scratch an extended MB is the way to go for a full 4-8 PCIe slots.

Check out Intels new 520 series SSD's.  They're the fastest 2.5 inch SSD's available, but what's really impressive is the degree of validation Intel did with these drives.  These will soon be known as the drives to get for both speed and reliability, two factors which used to be exclusive.  I'll post a review in the next 7-10 days once I complete my testing.

c.  WD Black drives have a well deserved reputation for speed and reliability, but other drives are catching up.  I recently reviewed a Seagate 3tb that came in an external enclosure and later turned out to be their new halo drive, and it's a real screamer with great reliability.  I was impressed with these.  I'm still recommending the WD Black's to my clients though because they're proven. 

d.  Have you considered a different video card setup to offload some of that processing to the GPU(s)?  And have you considered dual GPU cards, or multiple cards?  I think you could gain some real improvement in this area.

Thanks for the reply.  It is good to be see a persons work load along with their specs.  It helps keep perspective.   Good luck with your future upgrades.
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tived

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Re: Scratch Disc
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2012, 03:53:49 am »

Hi Steve,

this is a huge saving - I went on an expedition in 2010 to cover some art in the outback, it took me almost 2 months to process, with my two older computers. Some pano's I would have to wait for hours, to see the result, make a change and then wait again.
Now, I can almost do it in real time - you see the programs run through the files, faster then you can count the files as they are added to the pano - and its there, changes are done, as you sit there - I have now a lessor dependency to coffee ;-)

Henrik
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tived

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Re: Scratch Disc
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2012, 04:06:05 am »

Hi Steve,

The mainboard is the now aging EVGA SR-2, with 7 PCI-E slots - I think they have a SR-X in the pipeline, but I am sticking with this for a few years
I have two IBM 1015 controllers and use 2 channels on the onboard controller but I am eyeing of the LSI 9265 or Areca 18xx, if only 8 channels then a pair but I have been looking at the 16 or 24 channels

...ahh, maybe you can give me some advise here, to me it make sense to split the data over multiple controllers - is this still valid? or should I just go get one of the bigger controllers with 4GB Cache

Over-clocking - No I would not recommend this to others unless I could test it to be 120% cool and safe - It does however run very stable thanks to the many people on various forums who also have the same board and have been so kind to assist. So, I am very confortable with it and it does offer me a saving in the processors as I could go for the cheaper 5650 over the 5680 which were 2x+ the cost ... and that makes a difference when you need to buy two of them ;-)

I am currently only Air-cooled, with two Corsair A-70, i am considering water-cooling but when i last priced it, it would set me back approx $2k AUD (with multiple GPU's) I also looked at LittleDevils special refrigerated cooling, but was too much of a chicken to go ahead!

ATM i am waiting for the hard drives to drop in price, I can wait as its currently is only little work, but I have more projects coming up later in the year

thanks very much for replying and sharing your knowledge here, its very much appreciated

Thanks

Henrik
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