Newbie to MF: phase one P45 -- better Mamiya 645 or Hassie V ?

[dhdhdh]

I'm a long time 35mm digi shooter moving into MF.  Primary use is Macro (need to fill the frame with an object the size of an orange.)

Looking at used Phaseone P45 backs, wondering to go with Hassie 501cm or a used Mamiya 645AFD.  Assuming Mamiya is easier to focus (used to have a film 'Blad, not so easy to nail focus on those) but wondering if Mamiya glass will be as good.  Does the 645AFD have autofocus?

Recommendations for systems?  Best lenses ...  Hasselblad 120mm macro... or Mamiya ...

Thanks, i welcome ALL comments.

dh

[Lester]

When I was a working photographer, I used and still have most of the Hass lens. I shot a lot of my commercial work, using the Hass System. Then I got a P25, which is set up to a Mamiya 645 AFD. When the P45 came out, I upgrade to it. I was really surprise, most of the Mamiya lens are cheap at ebay and most of them are sharper then the Hass. As of now, I have most of the Mamiya lens and yes their newest 120 micro is very sharp. The AFD stand for Auto Focus Digital. I now own a Leaf Aptus II 12 and P65+, using the Mamiya AFD II system.

[theguywitha645d]

Novaflex has a bellows and shift/tilt bellows that use enlarger lenses where you can get Mamiya and Hasselblad mounts.

There is something about 120mm medium-format macro lenses--there does not seem to be a bad one. The 120mm Macro for the Pentax 645 line is one of their best lenses also.

I guess the only question is, and I don't know the answer, whether the Hasselblad V mount will be available from Phase/Leaf in the future. Hasselblad H and Mamiya are really current cameras with a digital platform. The V mount cameras seem to be falling away. I would check that (and I might be wrong).

[amsp]

You should get the system you enjoy working with the most, they are both excellent. Mamiya has great lenses and the 120 macro is one of the best lenses out there, so you don't have to worry about that. If you are doing macro work in the studio it's easy enough to confirm focus if you shoot tethered. If you're doing macro work in the field the Mamiya might have an advantage as it has focus confirmation in the finder, even with older manual focus lenses. Also, I'm not 100% sure but I think the Mamiya 120mm macro focuses much closer than the Hassy, so you might need extension rings if you go the Hassy route.

[Doug Peterson]

Both of the 120 lenses are excellent. In my experience the 120D for the Mamiya has a little less chromatic aberration and stops down more gracefully beyond f/11. The Mamiya body has a built in shutter which means it can use any lens which can be mounted or adapted (e.g. the enlarger lenses mentioned above) or even Hasselblad 500 series lenses. Since the Hassy body lacks a built in shutter it can only be used with Hasselblad 500 series lenses.

The 645AFD (and all the other iterations of the body like the Phase One AF and DF) does have autofocus, but I think for your studio still life shots you would be using the body in manual focus mode and use the autofocus confirmation light. As I said in my email I think that you'll end up shooting these tethered because the workflow for studio still life is just so nice. In which case you'll be able to verify focus is perfect (as viewed at 100% on a large monitor) just a few seconds after capture. So I don't think that autofocus (or focus confirmation) is that important for this application (though if you want to do other things with the system it may be important for those other applications).

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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[dhdhdh]

Thanks to y'all for your responses, much appreciated. That goes double for you, Doug, since you've already been so helpful. I don't know why I'd want to buy my digital back anywhere else :-)

Auto-focus probably will be important, as I do location portrait photography and well remember the days shooting film with a hasselblad and coming back with soft images... i think the possibly ever-so-slightly inferior Mamiya glass as compared to the legendary (and hyped??) Zeiss lenses won't make any difference, because the Mamiya images will be in focus.

And your comment about stopping down more "gracefully" beyond f11 is helpful... I'm shooting with as much DOF as I can for this project.

thx again

[Doug Peterson]

I think the Mamiya vs. Hassy glass debate is like most brand-based wars. There are some fantastic lenses on each side and some just-ok lenses on each side. The key is more to pick the best lenses in each lineup than to pick one or the other. For instance I'd put the Mamiya 150/2.8 D lens (great for tight portraits) against any similar-length lens of any brand or format but would be the first to tell you the Mamiya 35mm is just ok.

And again, you can use the Hassy 500 and 200 series lenses on the Mamiya body (with manual stop down) using an adapter.

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
__________________

Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One Partner of the Year
Mamiya Leaf, Leica, Arca Swiss, Cambo, Profoto, LaCie, Canon, TTI, Broncolor & More

National: 877.217.9870  |  Cell: 740.707.2183
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Buy Capture One 6 at 10% off

[darylgo]

My experience with a P30+ back is that Mamiya lenses are as sharp as Zeiss,  the color was not as beautiful but a few sliders in Adobe software shifted Mamiya colors very close to Zeiss.  I haven't used the Mamiya Macros but the Zeiss 120mm macro for both the Contax 645 and the Hasselblad 500 series are two phenomenal lenses.  The Contax is my reference lens and everything else gets compared to it, sharp at both distance and macro.  The Hasselblad is sharp only at macro but uniquely sharp from f4-32 with little variation on the sample I owned.  The older Mamiya manual focus apo 200mm and 300mm lenses are beautiful performers, the 300mm has quite a reputation to this day.  Hasselblad V cameras are quite dated by todays standards, Mamiya cameras are good but not impressive, nonetheless they would be my choice because they are so versatile and with the addition of Schneider optics it shows they are serious about optical quality.  And one last thought, when I shoot a poor lens or the image is less than ideal sharpness I find the the clarity slider in Lightroom gets me very close to a better, almost ideal capture. 

[DeeJay]

On a P45 I would choose the Hassie V any day. I've used the V with a P65 and the lenses and focussing tolerances were starting to show their limits but on a P45 it works beautifully.