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Author Topic: IQ180 Lens path advice  (Read 3039 times)

David Campbell

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IQ180 Lens path advice
« on: February 06, 2012, 09:16:02 pm »

I have recently bought a Phase One IQ180 kit during a PODAS workshop.
I have the standard Schnieder 80mm LS and the Phase One 28mm as part of the deal offered at PODAS.

I am trying to decide what path to take for lens choice, use 645 DSLR lenses from Phase and Schnieder or move to a technical camera with Rodenstock lenses.

I shoot landscapes using a tripod/MLU.
When shooting with Canon gear I would stich with longer lenses to gain resolution/detail. Now with the IQ180, the need to stich has dropped significantly. It would be more for panoramic aspect ratios.

Regarding technical cameras, I have been reading alot that has already been posted on this forum as well as the technical documents on the Rodenstock/ALPA websites.

For people with the Rodenstock HR-W lenses, do you find that your sensor is outresolving the lens? do you notice any difference in quality compared to the HR-S series?
The Rodenstock documents mention this series is good for 6μm pixels, or 60MP backs
The HR-S series is documented for 5μm pixels, how ever they do not have the image circles of HR-W series.

The HR-W 32mmf4 would be a good starting point in terms of flexibility/focal length (~20mm with no stiching on IQ180).

I would love to reduce the mass of my system with an ALPA STC or even TC for hiking. Added benefit is not needing batteries for the camera.
I have also not had any experience in using LCC profiles yet (except for the shadow detail recovery trick), so I am not sure how annoying that could be to my workflow.

I am interested to hear peoples observation and advice.

For now I will continue using the SLR lenses.

Thank you in advance

Regards
David Campbell

pindman

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Re: IQ180 Lens path advice
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2012, 10:38:35 pm »

I think you'll be very happy with the IQ180... I am.

On the other hand, I tried the 28mm lens with a P65+ back, and found it... well... to be polite, unusable for serious work.  I love my Alpa, and although the image quality with the Cambo I had was good, just didn't enjoy using it.  http://www.optechsdigital.com/ (I get no kickbacks) is wonderful if you're considering Alpa.  Either way, if you're looking for maximum quality in very wide lenses I'd suggest you invest the proceeds of the 28mm into a technical camera setup.

Paul
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marcmccalmont

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Re: IQ180 Lens path advice
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2012, 10:44:40 pm »

The difference in IQ between the Phase, Schneider and Mamiya lenses and the Rodenstocks on my tech camera is large I think worth the trouble and investment
40HR 70HR and 105
Marc
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Marc McCalmont

Gary Ferguson

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Re: IQ180 Lens path advice
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2012, 04:33:10 am »


I use a P65+ on both a Linhof M679cs and Rodenstock Digeron lenses, and Phase One 645 bodies with Mamiya/Phase One lenses.

The image quality differences between the two systems are very very small. For standard or long focal lengths there's no practical difference, they draw differently, but neither system can claim practical superiority.

For wider lenses there are some small advantages in the extreme corners with Digeron lenses, but for most practical applications these can be ignored.

It's worth noting that the Phase One 28mm is actually the highest resolving lens in the entire Phase One/Mamiya line up...wide open and in the centre of the frame. Stopped down and away from the centre performance gradually falls away, it's still remarkably good right out to the far edges and only becomes questionable in the extreme corners. If this is an issue try the 45mm which holds iq right to the extremities of the frame.

The only real dud in the Mamiya/Phase One prime lens range was the Hartblei T&S which has been discontinued.
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marcmccalmont

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Re: IQ180 Lens path advice
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2012, 05:32:15 pm »

This was not a controlled test but when I first got my IQ180 I took a few shots first with the DF camera and the 75-150 and then with the Rodenstock 70HR/WRS
Both were manually focused on the tree and focus confirmed with the focus mask on the rear of the IQ both near f11 (probably should have used f8 but it was just a quick test
The HR was so much better I now do not bring the DF/lenses with me, for long shots I bring my 5DII/200f4/1.4xIII
Could have been my technique but the technical lenses were all superior (unsharpened!)
Marc
« Last Edit: February 07, 2012, 05:37:05 pm by marcmccalmont »
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Marc McCalmont

Gary Ferguson

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Re: IQ180 Lens path advice
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2012, 08:53:09 am »

This was not a controlled test but when I first got my IQ180 I took a few shots first with the DF camera and the 75-150 and then with the Rodenstock 70HR/WRS

Marc, I'm surprised at the difference you're seeing. I use the Rodenstock 70mm, and although I've never used the Phase One/Mamiya 75-150mm I regularly use the Phase One/Mamiya 80mm and in truth can't detect much practical difference at all, especially after moderate sharpening.

Phase One commisioned and published MTF charts for their lens range, I understand these tests were conducted by Hasselblad who use the same Zeiss testing equipment and same testing regime that Rodenstock use. In other words Phase One's and Rodenstock's respective published MTF charts should be directly comparable. They suggest that the Rodenstock 70mm Digaron W enjoys a small advantage over the Phase One 80mm and 75-150mm at 75mm, but it really is pretty small.

That ties in with my own experiences using these two lens ranges. Any differences are pretty much swamped by moderate sharpening, with both lens ranges delivering first class quality that, under optimum conditions, are capable of huge enlargements of x15 and even x20 while still holding up to critical scrutiny.

I'm not trying to beat the drum for Phase One/Mamiya, as I said earlier their Hartblei partnership with the 45mm T&S was a mistake, but by and large the practical differences between the two lens ranges are matters for personal preference rather than something that can be characterised as "winners and losers".
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Paul2660

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Re: IQ180 Lens path advice
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2012, 08:53:52 am »

David:

I have not shot the 32W, but have used the 23, 28 and 35 (All the S series).  The 28mm is amazing and most definitely is sharpest wide angle I have ever used on Medium Format.  I found the 28mm is best shot from F5.6 to F8 and much past you start to suffer from diffraction.  The lens at F5.6 when compared to me Mamiya 28mm at 5.6 to F8 as so much sharper, you feel you just got a eye correction.  I was able to use the 28mm for a few days and wasted the first two shooting it at F11 to F16 (from my experience with the Mamiya 28mm) only after reading Rodenstock's literature on the lens and talking to Rod Klukas (US ARCA Rep) did I realize that this lens's sweet spot is F5.5 to F8.  And it's very sweet at F 5.6 :)

The 32m  from the little I have been able to read is also amazing in sharpness.  Rodenstock sells a center filter for it also, which will add a bit more to the overall cost.  I feel that it will share the same range of aperture, F5.6 to F 8 only because it's designed in the same manner as the all the rest of the S lenses (retrofocus). 

I saw you are a landscape shooter, one other thing to remember is the CF on the 32.  As I recall you go from 86mm to 105mm (I don't think it's 112mm).  So if you use filters which I do, you will need to account for the considerably larger opening. 

Please post some images with the 32mm and a review if possible. It's a hard lens to read anything about.
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Paul Caldwell
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marcmccalmont

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Re: IQ180 Lens path advice
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2012, 05:29:23 pm »

Marc, I'm surprised at the difference you're seeing. I use the Rodenstock 70mm, and although I've never used the Phase One/Mamiya 75-150mm I regularly use the Phase One/Mamiya 80mm and in truth can't detect much practical difference at all, especially after moderate sharpening.

Phase One commisioned and published MTF charts for their lens range, I understand these tests were conducted by Hasselblad who use the same Zeiss testing equipment and same testing regime that Rodenstock use. In other words Phase One's and Rodenstock's respective published MTF charts should be directly comparable. They suggest that the Rodenstock 70mm Digaron W enjoys a small advantage over the Phase One 80mm and 75-150mm at 75mm, but it really is pretty small.

That ties in with my own experiences using these two lens ranges. Any differences are pretty much swamped by moderate sharpening, with both lens ranges delivering first class quality that, under optimum conditions, are capable of huge enlargements of x15 and even x20 while still holding up to critical scrutiny.

I'm not trying to beat the drum for Phase One/Mamiya, as I said earlier their Hartblei partnership with the 45mm T&S was a mistake, but by and large the practical differences between the two lens ranges are matters for personal preference rather than something that can be characterised as "winners and losers".

It could have been bad technique or perhaps I have a poor copy of the 75-150, I'll have to do some further testing btw the crop was from near the center
Marc
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Marc McCalmont

Lester

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Re: IQ180 Lens path advice
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2012, 09:03:53 pm »

Not all lens of the same style are created equal, but the basic design is sharp, there are sharper and less sharp lens in the same batch.
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