Epson Exhibition Satin Canvas - 2 Thumbs Down :(

[Landscapes]

So after my glowing review of Epson Exhibition Matte Canvas (here http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=60482.msg487286#msg487286), I decided to give the Satin canvas a try.  Not sure why, but it looked pretty cool at the store so I ordered a roll.

Anyway, next to the matte, I'm quite dissapointed.  First of all, its more stiff.  It does still have stretch in it, but its more like cardboard now.  It curls up quite a bit, and after it was in my printer for a bit, next time I went to print, I had a paper jam from the printhead hitting the edge of the canvas that curled up.  Luckily no damage, but my printer went into an auto clean after and wasted a bunch of ink.

Next problem is that its not waterproof, and although the matte isn't as well, just moist/oily fingers are enough to lift the ink off. (I don't think the matte is as sensitive to this)  In fact, even as I was stretching after coating, it was still far too easy to smudge the ink right off even with the coating on.  (I only let it dry a few hours though, so maybe after a day it sets more).  Its almost like the satin finish prevents the ink from being absorbed in the canvas and it just sits on top looking for something else that touches it to stick to.

So for more money, I have more headache.  I'm not sure why anyone would buy the satin or glossy variety... can someone shed some light?  Since its not waterproof, you have to for sure coat, and then the coating just controls your final finish, so you can have the matte or satin or glossy look anyway.  The delicate surface as well as stiff feel really makes this canvas a waste of money.

Anyone else having more luck?  I'm for sure sticking to the matte version.

[Randy Carone]

Did you use Photo Black on the Satin? This is the appropriate ink for the Epson Exhibition Canvas Satin and Gloss.

[Johnny_Boy]

Satin has both Matte and Photo black profiles. Matte black profile used on Satin takes forever to dry. This could be related?

(Supposedly matte black ink on satin gives better DMAX than photo ink on satin, but people reported ink drying problem, so they kept both profiles)

[Landscapes]

Did you use Photo Black on the Satin? This is the appropriate ink for the Epson Exhibition Canvas Satin and Gloss.

Haha... opps... good point!  I just used my standard canvas workflow which of course uses the matte black.  I'm using the special 6 setting with my custom profile on a Canon iPF6100, and special 6-10 does use the matte black.  So I will switch to Special 1 I think and give it a go. 

This might certainly fix my ink smearing problem, but I still don't like the stifness, extra curl and higher price.  I am still curious why people pay the higher price.  Are they just stretching uncoated canvas?  Makes me wonder now how scratch resistant the ink will be if I'm using the right black! LOL

[Randy Carone]

The ink smudge issue may be solved by using Photo Black but, ALL aqueous ink prints on canvas should be coated. It is very risky to sell canvas prints that are not coated if they will be displayed without glass.

[Landscapes]

The ink smudge issue may be solved by using Photo Black but, ALL aqueous ink prints on canvas should be coated. It is very risky to sell canvas prints that are not coated if they will be displayed without glass.

So if this is the case, and I agree, why would anyway pay the extra price when the final finish (ie. matte or satin or gloss) can be achieved with the coating you use?

[KenBabcock]

You would be surprised at how many are NOT coating their canvases.

I think most folks here do, but I would also say we are a pickier group here and enjoy fine prints.  You won't find cheap canvases here printed on polyester from China with MDF stapled together for stretcher bars.  We enjoy what we do and we do things right around here - coating canvas is one of them.

[jmlamont]

In the last 6 months I have used Epson Exhibition Satin Canvas for well over ten 20" by 30" prints, using Mat Black ink, with absolutely no problems. Three coats of Premier Art EcoPrint Shield (2 gloss, 1 satin), rolled on, and it is so tough I can spill a glass of water all over it and rub it off with a tea towel with no damage whatsoever. The stretching is excellent with even my very basic technique. And my clients consistently remark on its wonderful Dmax and gamut (though they use different words). I think it is a fabulous product. (And I have absolutely no vested interest here other than hoping this excellent product continues to flourish so I and my clients can use it.)

Your problems may stem from the very short drying period. Epson is very explicit: two (2) days drying before any handling, let alone coating. This is a lot longer than the few hours it seems you gave it.

[jmlamont]

I forgot to mention that in terms of handling and in-machine behavior, again I have had no problems.

Your problems may stem from leaving it in the machine too long. Epson is very explicit on this point and warns people not to leave it in the machine or the printer may impart a crease that causes problems, just as you experienced after leaving it in the machine "for a bit."

[Landscapes]

Yes, I think you may be right on both parts.  I really haven't read the instructions or recommendations, partly because I'm using it with a Canon printer.  I've just had so much good luck with the matte version of the canvas that it seems odd to go through all these extra steps to make the satin one work.  I think I will finish off the roll with using the photo black ink and then go back to the matte and save some money in the process.

Anyway, I'm glad I brought this up so that other people can read about the differences and make a decision based on what they need.  I do wonder if perhaps the one advantage that the satin might have would be improved dmax.  If my final coating is 80% matte and 20% gloss (hence mostly matte), would the satin canvas show better dmax rather than using the matte canvas??  I'm too lazy to try it out myself! LOL

[JohnHeerema]

My own experience is with the gloss finish, and I've been pleased with it.

I use the matte profile, and find that the finish is pretty tough even without coating. One nice thing for me, is that coating makes very little visible difference, so I know right away what the final canvas will look like. I wait at least a couple of days before either stretching or coating (I apply Glamour II with an HVLP sprayer).

I was nervous about stretching it, since as you mention, it's relatively heavy. It is a bit of work to stretch, but so far it seems to be OK for me. I try to remember to look for curl before starting a print job, and to feed a couple of inches before printing if I see any.

I've never tried the satin finish, and the earlier comments make me think that it might be quite different.