About Red on set and other formats

[Thomas Editions]

Why don't you take a look at the Sony F3? It gives you easy 8-bit workflow and 10-bit uncompressed workflow (unlike the Red which only gives you CRAZY workflow).

Hope this helps.

One of the biggest problems I see in our times, is misinformation.  I work RED camera shoots weekly, I teach RED and RED workflow, so I'll say, you're wrong, and especially since  recently DIT'd an episodic shot on the F3.

RED is one of the easiest to work with.  I go from backed-up footage to color corrected, exposure corrected and send to transcode in less 30 seconds.  I do features, I do TV, I do commercials, so my workflow is workfast.

Everything I say on this forum, I have done, over and over again.

Von

[fredjeang]

Von,

I am surprised too each time I read about the heavy oscur Red workflow. This isn't true.

I don't own personally a Red camera but have been editing Red footage from now about 6 months and it is one of the friendliest and more stable-reliable workflow, and it's damn easy.
And Raw video gives room.

I really don't get were this reputation comes from. I have the feeling that those who are saying it haven't worked with red footage that much.

[Thomas Editions]

Fred,

It's been this way since the start.  I know one prominent DP that shot a commercial on RED 3 years ago, it's been sitting on the self because his post house refused to learn the workflow, and bad mouthed the process.

That caused him to use the Alexa on his show, and pass on the RED.  It's politics and misinformation, sign of our times.

Von

[Thomas Editions]

I would like to give a statistic.  On an average day, I work with between, 300 and 600GB's of RED RAW data.  I verify backup (using check-sumed software), I QC footage for problems, corrupt files, focus, I correct both exposure, and do an amazing color correction (I use a Eizo 232W grading monitor), and transcode to Avid (QC'd in Media Composer 6) or ProRes,  plus produce iPad dailies, and upload to a server for cloud delivered dailies. 

I do this all day every day, and still have time to speak to my girlfriend, check my email, and shop on Banana Republic online.

This is the most thorough workflow, next to Capture One I've used.

My point is, this is not rocket science, it's easy (but don't tell anyone)

Von

[fredjeang]

I don't have MC6 but the 5.

With AMA, one of my fav workflow thinking fast is to grade directly within Avid the raw datas. That's something not a lot of people seem to realise how powerfull or helpfull it is.
The only thing I was missing from MC5 is that the raw corrections you do within MC weren't exportable back (that I know), let's say to RCX for ex. Maybe they implemented that in the 6th version.

The fact to be able to color correct without leaving the editor, and color correct the raw datas directly in real time have been completly ignored. Most people don't even know it can be done.

[bcooter]

I would like to give a statistic.  On an average day, I work with between, 300 and 600GB's of RED RAW data.  I verify backup (using check-sumed software), I QC footage for problems, corrupt files, focus, I correct both exposure, and do an amazing color correction (I use a Eizo 232W grading monitor), and transcode to Avid (QC'd in Media Composer 6) or ProRes,  plus produce iPad dailies, and upload to a server for cloud delivered dailies. 

I do this all day every day, and still have time to speak to my girlfriend, check my email, and shop on Banana Republic online.

This is the most thorough workflow, next to Capture One I've used.

My point is, this is not rocket science, it's easy (but don't tell anyone)

Von

Von,

Thanks for your help yesterday.  Your great!

Now in reality, at least my reality, there is nothing easy with digital video.  The Cinex software is pretty good, gets you close enough for one light dailies, (though there is the apple issue of quicktime gamma that seems to have a mind of it's own).,

but to get to dailies, or a scratch file then go to finish  . . . whoa what a difference.

Also shooting different cameras on set is not for the faint of heart.

I personally like Apple Color for finish because I think it's a smart, fairly easy to learn system and the different grading rooms makes sense.  Sometimes it's magic, other times it's voodo, but ti does work once you get past the peecee style interface.

Personally I love my R-1's, understand them and they do what I need most of the time.  For a lot a work I learned to love the Sony fs100, but I think I'll never love the Scarlet.  Some people like the touch screen, some don't, but The Scarlet seems like a work in progress to me.

Sound sampling on review clips is still not enabled, which scares the crap out of you the first time you play back and file and hear nothing.

The touch screen seems to have it's issues to like the camera is kind of overtaxed or waiting for the next firmware upgrade.

RED's a smart company, though they give it less information than the nsa, so nobody I know understands what, when where it's coming out.

I do look forward to the new Sony 4k, but like all things digital, it will take working it in on set to really know.

IMO

BC


P.S.  I was trying to upload the Scarlet's new firmware and like all things RED the instructions are a little cryptic.  Von was on another set but I called him and he talked me through it in 2 minutes.

Big, Big thanks to someone that knows their stuff.

[fredjeang]

BC, as we are in Red zone, I have a question I wanted to ask you for some time concerning the Red post.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seems to not use, or not to like (or at least you never mention them) the proxy QT files a lot in your post workflow?

I know that they don't look very good but is it because of that? (thinking clients watching).

So far I didn't use those proxies in my Red workflow but I was thinking that it could be interesting and straightforward with a re-linking to the R3D.

Cheers.

[bcooter]

BC, as we are in Red zone, I have a question I wanted to ask you for some time concerning the Red post.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seems to not use, or not to like (or at least you never mention them) the proxy QT files a lot in your post workflow?

I know that they don't look very good but is it because of that? (thinking clients watching).

So far I didn't use those proxies in my Red workflow but I was thinking that it could be interesting and straightforward with a re-linking to the R3D.

Cheers.

The proxies are in three sizes and they're green very noisy, though messing around with the latest premier they looked better, not useable better, but better.

No the only RED workflow is to buy a RED Rocket, process out, and then decide later.

IMO

BC

[fredjeang]

  It's true that there are greenish.

Well, there is another system weired complication. MC is on Mac also but Metafuse isn't, although there is a way to make it works on Mac.

In Avid I'd use it to convert directly R3D into MXF choosing a low debayering quality. Of course according to the debay qualy it would take more or less time to transcode.
Just that the project in Media Composer and the Metafuze choices have to be the same.
Then I can export the editing back into RCX and grade.
In fact there are a lot of different combinations and it's not always easy to get the fastest-more effective.

IMO, the fact that we have the Raw hability leads to make choices. Is it better to think more like "photographic" workflow if I might say is the big question.

[Thomas Editions]

RED generated proxies actually come in four resolutions (F) Full, (H) Half, (M) Medium (i think), and (P) Proxy.  The only one really usable is "P", and  you can play it real time.  the other resolutions are better looking, but you'll never get real time playback out of them.  So why are they there, as a reference file, but not a real good file to work with.  I know many have used the "P" files in their offline, and relink, but as bcooter mentioned the Rocket workflow is the way to go.

I know the Epic and possibly the Scarlet, don't even offer the option of recording proxies, so more often than not, I turn off the QT option when I configure the camera.

As fas as the greenish look, did you download the latest Quicktime plugin?  Also try opening the clips in Clipfinder, and see how they look.  I just check on some shots from last week, and the proxies are pretty, but they are closer to the look, and definitely not green.

Von

Von

[bcooter]

I'm not defending the RED system, but processing out in Cine-x is faster with the RED Rocket than make quicktime movies through clip wrap or any of the other quicktime based processors and you can adjust cine-x.

As ar as the proxy file I haven't looked at them in a year, they were green,  so I guess they're not green anymore, we just don't use them because we process everything out.

Von's right you can do it on set (like a traditional digital tech) on later).  We run a portable RED Rocket for viewing on set and RED rockets in our desktops so it's pretty fast, fairly easy, not perfect but it works.

Knock on wood but our R-1's are bulletproof and if you play it back in camera, you know you've got it where the Scarlet is like voodo to me.  We have all read the manual front and back and it's kind of scary at times when you hit play and hear no sound, though it's fine once in the computer.

RED's are just new territory, that's why I suggest to anyone willing to spend that kind of money in either purchase or rental to think about the R-1 first.

IMO

BC