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Author Topic: Epson 7900 from the inside - out  (Read 698248 times)

davidh202

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Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #1260 on: February 12, 2013, 09:30:04 PM »

The big question I have is
After a year of your time and effort, do you still feel it is cost effective to even attempt to replace a head and possibly other ink related assemblies (Cap station -Dampers) while your inside the machine, with a possibility of something else screwing up, rather than for a few hundred $ more, just start from scratch with a new unit and warrantee?
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Eric Gulbransen

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Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #1261 on: February 12, 2013, 10:27:20 PM »

The hidden drive behind my making this video is that I find a cure for clogged heads.  Then users will be able to remove them solo.  Apparently I am delusional because I still feel confident that a cure is findable.  If this happens, this video makes a lot of sense.  Even if it doesn't though, installing a new head for $1,400 still saves the machine in my eyes.  

Far as something screwing up, once you watch the video you'll understand for yourself - there are no mysteries to this process.  Just steps.  I am not a big risk taker.  If swapping a head yourself was a throw the chips in the air and hope they land right process, I'd be long gone a while ago.

Interesting point about the damper unit.  One thing I plan to do in the future is take apart an old, used, damper.  I'd like to see why one would need to be replaced.  What exactly is the difference, old to new.  I had an Epson tech on the phone just the other day who told me straight out that all the damper unit replacement "mumbo jumbo" was crap.  This guy was running his machine with dampers from 98, no problems.  I won't even get into what he said about using out of date ink...

By the way if you want to replace your damper unit, this same video will do you justice.  Premier Pro just exported it at Vimeo codec - it's 1.7gb.  That's too big.  Where's my framing hammer.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2013, 10:30:59 PM by Eric Gulbransen »
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Eric Gulbransen

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Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #1262 on: February 12, 2013, 11:06:44 PM »

Did I just say I am not a big risk taker?

I am again now one of the struggling masses.  I just sold our perfectly repaired, perfectly functioning Epson Stylus Pro 7900.  I have now re-inserted my neck in the noose.  The only X900 here anymore is a "fatally" clogged one...

Eric Gulbransen

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Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #1263 on: February 13, 2013, 12:25:21 PM »

The elephant is finally off my back.

...at lest one of them is.

Remember to go full screen, full HD.   Because why wouldn't you

LEARN HOW TO CHANGE YOUR OWN 7900/9900/11880 PRINTHEAD

I love you too..
« Last Edit: February 13, 2013, 12:27:39 PM by Eric Gulbransen »
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Dan Berg

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Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #1264 on: February 13, 2013, 12:46:26 PM »

Since I started all this. (Sort of)
I need to be the first one to respond.
Great job!
Look forward to more.
Thanks for all your efforts.

bill t.

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Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #1265 on: February 13, 2013, 01:22:50 PM »

Eric, that is just so well done!  When Spielberg sees that, yer outa here, dude!
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Blue moon

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Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #1266 on: February 13, 2013, 06:25:36 PM »

The elephant is finally off my back.

...at lest one of them is.

Remember to go full screen, full HD.   Because why wouldn't you

LEARN HOW TO CHANGE YOUR OWN 7900/9900/11880 PRINTHEAD

I love you too..
Eric
Not in the least bit surprised....its absolutely brilliant.....
Success with knobs on...
Love the damper cap device.....what a clever stroke !
What are you going to get up to next
Well done for all of us
Matt
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enduser

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Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #1267 on: February 13, 2013, 06:41:55 PM »

This:
  http://www.scribd.com/doc/91839121/EPSON-Pro-7900-and-9900-Field-Repair-Guide
might be of some use together with Eric's excellent video.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2013, 06:43:28 PM by enduser »
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Eric Gulbransen

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Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #1268 on: February 13, 2013, 08:21:03 PM »

I'm really glad you guys like the video.  Thought about it all day doing the framing hammer thing.  It's not perfect of course, already I see that I left out the part about unplugging the machine after power-down.  I'll have to add that clip and upload it again. 

enduser, thank you for that.

Next project - back to clearing X900 heads again.  I have new found motivation, since I don't have a functioning 7900 anymore.

Eric Gulbransen

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Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #1269 on: February 14, 2013, 10:47:06 AM »

Interesting - one cornered X900 user in Canada contacted me a week ago asking if the printhead video was done yet.  He told me he had just received his new head from Epson, but that it's part number was different than the part number we have been using.  The part number we have mentioned on this thread many times in the past is F191010.  But his replacement printhead part number is F191040.  When I do Google searches for this different part number I only get results in a foreign language, which Google Translate indicates is Italian.  I wonder what the difference is

iladi

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Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #1270 on: February 14, 2013, 01:07:09 PM »

Good job Eric. Very well done. I wish you have made  this video last august when i,ve changed my damper assy. You,ve spared me me a lot of mess and emotions.
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davidh202

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Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #1271 on: February 14, 2013, 06:59:27 PM »

Could be he received the wrong head ...  aby normal :o
Another possibility is there has been a revision done to the head and given a new code #
« Last Edit: February 14, 2013, 07:03:31 PM by davidh202 »
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Blue moon

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Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #1272 on: February 16, 2013, 05:48:04 PM »

I thought these articles from Jon Cone are helpful tips on printer maintenance:  http://www.inkjetmall.com/wordpress/category/maintenance/
...notably on humidity, infrequent printer use, and head strikes.

I haven't had any problems with my 9900, but I also use my 9900 very regularly and humidity levels are kept fairly constant in studio...

ken
Really helpful.....thanks Ken
Matt
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Blue moon

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Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #1273 on: February 16, 2013, 07:32:47 PM »

I'm getting the cold shoulder from Sigma Aldrich on the X-100 order.  It seems automated though, they're asking for documentation confirming this is a business, and they refuse to ship to a residential address.  I'll head underground and work this out another way tomorrow.

Guys
Got the Photoflo from Kodak yesterday !(6 weeks ordered )
Will be " drip-feeding " a  largish mixture about 2 feet above the disconnected head made of gylcol ,glycerol ,(epson clean solution )  Photoflo and water early next week ......down directly through a nipple on the disconnected head.....quickly followed by a back-syringe suck out through the same nipple....in a very gentle way....anyones guess what might happen..
Quite pleased  by the power of gravity generated from  that distance above the head...
Alan ....any idea of the amount of Photoflo that i should start with on experiment 1
Matt
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Blue moon

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Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #1274 on: February 16, 2013, 09:04:49 PM »

Hello there-




 I feel that if you can completely bypass the wiper blade you are setting yourself up for success.


Erik....yes or......  If the wiper blade could be persuaded to have a bath more often..



I also feel that if you can keep something moving through the print head while the print head is not in use (perhaps dial in the cleaning solution that has been mentioned here before) then you are creating a situation where there is a low probability for a clog to form inside the nozzle.

  Erik....Superb idea...

. On the other hand, chamois cloth is much more expensive, but worth it for this stage of the solution process, as a means. Chamois cloth is designed to clean fine surfaces and cutting up the cloth into smaller pieces,  and giving the print head a careful "shoe shine" is what I have in mind.  

Erik...If you could get the head cleaned without too much rubbing.....dont forget that your idea involves doing this often and the less friction the better..
While this is a subtle attempt the long term solution would be a pump with an auxiliary set of nozzles attached to the print head that gently (like 3ml a day gently) pumps a cleaning solution through the print head while the printer isn't in use.

Erik...It happens in water filtration systems where there is a reverse flow of water every 6 hours to clean out dirty filters...its called a " backwash system ".  Would work with printers ...the backwash would need to be a solution based liquid...and indeed the pumps already in the printer could be harnessed to do the backwashing...we would need to bypass the maintenance tank and go directly to a sink if possible....

Really enjoyed going through your concept Erik.....i am going to try doing the same approach but by means of gravity flow and drip feeding....same system as used on patients in hospitals....and of course the old syringe for pulling at the block from the opposite direction...will let you know what damage i can manage....
The beauty of your approach is that it would become a built in automatic self cleansing system.....rather a new concept for an Epson product...
Would love to see you make progress with this new approach...happy skiing....enjoyed vale etc a few years back now....great sports up there....
Matt


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davidh202

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Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #1275 on: February 16, 2013, 10:07:28 PM »

" the long term solution would be a pump with an auxiliary set of nozzles attached to the print head that gently (like 3ml a day gently) pumps a cleaning solution through the print head while the printer isn't in use.

Erik...It happens in water filtration systems where there is a reverse flow of water every 6 hours to clean out dirty filters...its called a " backwash system ".  Would work with printers ...the backwash would need to be a solution based liquid...and indeed the pumps already in the printer could be harnessed to do the backwashing...we would need to bypass the maintenance tank and go directly to a sink if possible"....

Pretty daft idea if you ask me.
Most people here are complaining about wasting ink and a method such as this a surefire way to accomplish that!

Putting cleaning solution through the head at a regular interval means you would be flushing the existing ink out,then the head would need to have the cleaning solution flushed out with ink, and re charged with even more ink before printing. ::)
That's equates to three times or more the amount of ink going into the waste tank or "down the drain"
Not to mention more nozzle checks done before printing to make sure that there are no clogs or drop outs.

Sorry...
Back to the drawing board!

  
« Last Edit: February 16, 2013, 10:09:14 PM by davidh202 »
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enduser

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Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #1276 on: February 17, 2013, 06:11:34 AM »

What if clogging is just what happens when a nozzle and/or its channel has simply reached the end of its life?  What if clogs begin when a nozzle just doesn't fire anymore?
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Blue moon

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Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #1277 on: February 17, 2013, 08:57:06 AM »

" the long term solution would be a pump with an auxiliary set of nozzles attached to the print head that gently (like 3ml a day gently) pumps a cleaning solution through the print head while the printer isn't in use.

Erik...It happens in water filtration systems where there is a reverse flow of water every 6 hours to clean out dirty filters...its called a " backwash system ".  Would work with printers ...the backwash would need to be a solution based liquid...and indeed the pumps already in the printer could be harnessed to do the backwashing...we would need to bypass the maintenance tank and go directly to a sink if possible"....

Pretty daft idea if you ask me.
Most people here are complaining about wasting ink and a method such as this a surefire way to accomplish that!

Putting cleaning solution through the head at a regular interval means you would be flushing the existing ink out,then the head would need to have the cleaning solution flushed out with ink, and re charged with even more ink before printing. ::)
That's equates to three times or more the amount of ink going into the waste tank or "down the drain"
Not to mention more nozzle checks done before printing to make sure that there are no clogs or drop outs.

Sorry...
Back to the drawing board!

  
Yes as you say this is drawing board stuff.....but dont knock Erik out of hand either......why ? Well you see you dont really have to let the cleaning system take over either.....for example who says that you need to run your backwash every 6 hours like in a water plant ? Could you run it say once a month if you wish....once a year if you wish.....you will notice that Erik is visualising an adapter unit that will hold both his 7 ink pipes and his 7 solution pipes that all come together at the head ....or at the damper unit.....who says you have to let all the solution pipes take over at the one time either....and run all 7 solutions at the one time .....why not do your nozzle check first and decide that you want to direct your solution pipe at say M only ? Why not have just one solution pipe serving all the ink lines but just one damper at a time being serviced by the solution line......use your solution line at your discretion...this is last resort stuff when you have tried all the hygiene routes and failed...
Now the less ink that needs wasting requires a switch tap that is closer to the head unit and of course the more sophisticated the pipe line adapter unit design plan  would naturally have to be ...totally beyond me to design....i have the gear got for the 7800 to simply pull out the " bold " cartridge unit at the front......put in a solution cart in its place at the front ...i intend permanently fitting an extra pipe line (filled with solution only with its own damper unit ) that runs with the other 8 lines .....pull out the " bold " damper unit....push in the solution damper unit in its place ...the printer will never see any difference as it still has 8 dampers to look after ( requires a chip change out front )....the only ink waste would happen as the solution damper feeds solution directly into the head for that channel only.....when block fixed ,reverse damper and cartridge and off you go......i have seen a lot more ink wasted following Epsons clean and double clean and powerclean and SS CLEAN techniques (plus maintenance tanks )when they use resin coated ink to unblock resin problems....btw Epson would argue that even the bit of ink that you lose from the damper switch is not waste.....its properly used ink lubricant.....there is no waste ever...
To summarise........i personally would see air infiltration as problem no 1 .....an air-sealed ink cartridge kept in your fridge will easily last 5 years without hardening.....some of the more up to date printers are clogging ink after a few months......
Problem no 2 is that Epson has never ever put the slightest time or thought or intelligence into how to safely sanitise  a resin coated wiper blade....as a child my dad would have clipped my ear if i left a paint brush unattended to after the joy and excitement of using a brush to paint....cleaning a paint brush was just boring.....NOT TO HIM IT WASNT.......
Matt
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Blue moon

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Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #1278 on: February 17, 2013, 09:12:42 AM »

What if clogging is just what happens when a nozzle and/or its channel has simply reached the end of its life?  What if clogs begin when a nozzle just doesn't fire anymore?
Such an important question to ask !!
Seem to recall one of Erics Epson connections saying that this is indeed a possibility but in his experience not very likely.....personally , i am very hopeful that Eric will be able to do the business with his " red " bottle......if he does , then we will know for the first time ever that unblockables are beatable........then we could all use " red " and by deduction discover that a nozzle and /or channel was dead........just imagine all the ink ,cleaning solution ,maintenance tanks ,time ,frustrations that Eric would save for all of us with his little  " red test " technique !
Matt
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #1279 on: February 17, 2013, 09:48:25 AM »

Guys
Got the Photoflo from Kodak yesterday !(6 weeks ordered )
Will be " drip-feeding " a  largish mixture about 2 feet above the disconnected head made of gylcol ,glycerol ,(epson clean solution )  Photoflo and water early next week ......down directly through a nipple on the disconnected head.....quickly followed by a back-syringe suck out through the same nipple....in a very gentle way....anyones guess what might happen..
Quite pleased  by the power of gravity generated from  that distance above the head...
Alan ....any idea of the amount of Photoflo that i should start with on experiment 1
Matt
Photoflo is extremely gentle (as are virtually all non-ionic detergents).  Photoflo contains between 5-10% detergent according to the MSDS and is also 25% or so propylene glycol so you need to figure that in as well in terms of what you mixture is.  For normal film work (eliminating water spots from processed negatives) the dilution is 1:200 but that's going to be way too weak for what we are looking at here.  I suspect that you can begin with a 5% amount of photoflo and see if that works (this would give you a final detergent concentration of 0.25% which is similar to what one gets when washing dishes!).  Having never seen a head in real life, I wonder if they are immersible in a cleaning solution without doing any damage.  This way one could use a warming bath to improve the cleaning process (much the same way as warm/hot water helps remove crud from dishes without scrubbing).  Eric might have a better feeling for this.
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