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Author Topic: Epson 7900 from the inside - out  (Read 560294 times)

Eric Gulbransen

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Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #740 on: June 21, 2012, 09:20:12 PM »

Wow Chaddro.  ...wow.

I am just back to computer land now.  Been gone over a week, driving through endless ages of deserts for days it seems on my trip to meet Edward the juggler about his 9900.  Edward's 9900 is in the back of my truck now, awaiting the start of my own episode II  "How To Drown a Dead Printhead In Six Gallons or Less". 

You my friend are an endless supply of information.  Thank you and good luck!

Nice work with randal21, Mark.  Success!!

viktor_au

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Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #741 on: June 22, 2012, 05:56:06 PM »

Air-pressurising system in 7900

I have to say thanks to Eric again.
He directed me to some helpful information and I can write the next:
The situation is more complex (in real life), as I found it in my 7900, but there are two major errors or reports related to an air pressurizing system faults of 7900.

For some reasons I have never experienced any of those errors having some obvious problems in my 7900 at that time, however.
First error can be 1537 (and I think 1536 related to it) when the Ink System Pressure Sensor reports the low pressure in the system.
I believe I didn’t have that error activated on by not using the faulty cartridge (photo-black) at all. This cartridge was leaking the air inside it and what is more important – was leaking the ink inside the air-chamber as well. Two problems in one Epson original cartridge.
A good idea in this situation is to test the cartridge by gently pumping a small amount of air by using the cartridge Air Pressure Insert Nipple (at the bottom of the cartridge). If you will continue to pump the air inside the cartridge the answer would be simple: it is faulty. A good cartridge will not accept a lot of air and eventually you won’t be able to pump more.
I found out the faulty cartridge by doing the opposite. I used the syringe to pump the ink out of the air-chamber when I heard the whistling noise of air getting inside the cartridge. I suppose this is just the same to the opposite procedure by pumping the air inside the cartridge. One way or another the cartridge must stop accepting the air in it or stop letting you to pump the air out of it.

The second situation is Replace Ink cartridge message on display.
In this situation the the CSIC Chip reports ink in the cartridge, but the Ink Out Sensor (located where the ink leaves the Cartridge) reports no ink getting out of it.
In that situation you have to use (again) the Air Pressure Insert Nipple (at the bottom of the cartridge) to pump the air inside the cartridge (gently). After you fill some resistance you have to stop and close the Air Pressure Insert Nipple. The bag inside the cartridge is under air pressure around it and by using the office clip and opening the cartridge ink outlet (at the top of the cartridge) you can release the air bubble and let the ink out of the cartridge.

As I understood the good and healthy work of air-pressurising system is more important if 7900 placed on 33d floor or at some location really high above the sea level.

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viktor_au

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Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #742 on: June 24, 2012, 03:48:25 AM »

Completely missing Light Cyan channel on Nozzle Test page

After I have finished fighting the ink in the air-pressurising system problem I have to face a new problem: the LC channel was blank on the nozzle test page.
I inspected the ink tubes. It was obvious that ink from LC cartridge wasn’t inside the plastic tube and some big air-bubbles occupied space between ink in the tube. I could see the dark and white areas in the tube.
It was an ink supply issue. The ink wasn’t reaching the Print Head.
I removed the LC cartridge and by using the syringe tried to pump the air inside it. It was happily pressurized without any problems.
Maybe I do have some problem in the tube intake valve. It possibly leaked some air inside the tube when the cartridge was removed when I was fixing the ink inside the air system problem. If it is the case, I will face it again later on one day.
I did next:
1.   I have executed a “Normal” cleaning procedure. No changes were observed. The air-bubble inside the LC tube didn’t  move at all.
2.   I have performed a Nozzle Check. LC color was not printed.
3.   I have executed a Color Pair cleaning procedure. The air-bubble moved up rapidly an inch and stopped.
4.   I have repeated the Nozzle Check and Color Pair cleaning procedures tree times until the ink reached the Print Head and LC color was printed on Nozzle Check Page.

The say: The purpose of the Power Cleaning cycle is to remove the any air in the Dampers that might restrict ink flow.
And I think they right.
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iladi

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Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #743 on: June 27, 2012, 03:53:00 PM »

My story, for short.
I was using dyes in my epson 9700 (same as 9900, but CCMMYYKK) since day one only with minor problems mainly due to bad carts or chips. I print most tehnical drafts and short therm POS and ocasionaly on photo paper. Last week i ordered OCP  pigmented ink from Octopus Germany. First problem: one contacts in the ink bay to the magenta cartridge get broke. Service want to sell me the whole ink bay. Thanks to Eric, I have the serviceman manual. I dismantle the printer and discovered that from 9 contacts of the ink cart chip, only 8 are used, so i replace the faulty one with the unused one. So far, so good, 300 euros economy. Thanks again Eric.
But the worst part it is still coming. I have inkflow problems. It seems that ink is to thick / nozzles are to thin. Coze I have nozzles drop while printing especialy on mate black and magenta. Other guy on other forum also notice that he has problems with yellow.

SO.... my conclusion is that maybe, maybe even original epson inks are a little to thick for such thin nozzles. Maybe dampers are a little subpar for a good inkflow (dampers seem a little small inncomparison with other). I don't know maybe I am speculating, but in mutoh same inks perform way better.

One more thing: other guy on other forum suggests that he added 1 ml of ammonia to 100 ml  ink, and his inkflow was getting better without sacrifacing(?) print quality.
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Randy Carone

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Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #744 on: June 27, 2012, 04:13:07 PM »

How can you base your supposition about Epson ink clogs by using third party ink from Germany!? Makes no sense. And this was after using dye ink that is not engineered by Epson?
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Randy Carone

Mark D Segal

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Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #745 on: June 27, 2012, 04:14:16 PM »

My story, for short.
I was using dyes in my epson 9700 (same as 9900, but CCMMYYKK) since day one only with minor problems mainly due to bad carts or chips. I print most tehnical drafts and short therm POS and ocasionaly on photo paper. Last week i ordered OCP  pigmented ink from Octopus Germany. First problem: one contacts in the ink bay to the magenta cartridge get broke. Service want to sell me the whole ink bay. Thanks to Eric, I have the serviceman manual. I dismantle the printer and discovered that from 9 contacts of the ink cart chip, only 8 are used, so i replace the faulty one with the unused one. So far, so good, 300 euros economy. Thanks again Eric.
But the worst part it is still coming. I have inkflow problems. It seems that ink is to thick / nozzles are to thin. Coze I have nozzles drop while printing especialy on mate black and magenta. Other guy on other forum also notice that he has problems with yellow.

SO.... my conclusion is that maybe, maybe even original epson inks are a little to thick for such thin nozzles. Maybe dampers are a little subpar for a good inkflow (dampers seem a little small inncomparison with other). I don't know maybe I am speculating, but in mutoh same inks perform way better.

One more thing: other guy on other forum suggests that he added 1 ml of ammonia to 100 ml  ink, and his inkflow was getting better without sacrifacing(?) print quality.

Have you ever actually used Epson ink designed for that printer? If so what was your operating experience with it?
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml

iladi

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Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #746 on: June 27, 2012, 04:23:24 PM »

@randy: based on how thick pigmented ink is comparing with dye.
@ mark: no. Never used original ink, just serynge them for some tests.

I don' t want to offend someone with my post. Just made some speculations based on my personal experience. As i mentioned before i also have solvent printer and a sepiax printer, all epson printhead based and i can clearly see semnificant difference in response of the piezo head in relation with ink thikness.
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #747 on: June 27, 2012, 04:53:07 PM »

@randy: based on how thick pigmented ink is comparing with dye.
@ mark: no. Never used original ink, just serynge them for some tests.

I don' t want to offend someone with my post. Just made some speculations based on my personal experience. As i mentioned before i also have solvent printer and a sepiax printer, all epson printhead based and i can clearly see semnificant difference in response of the piezo head in relation with ink thikness.

There's no issue here of offending anyone; at least I have zero vested interest in whether you or any one else uses Epson ink - it's a purely objective question directed at understanding whether you've ever experienced the problems you mention using Epson inks, because according to Epson, the inks and the printer technology are an integrated package designed to work properly with each other. Therefore, if you are not using their ink, the diagnosis of your problems must now at least consider that 3rd party ink MAY BE another variable in play (and I'm not saying necessarily it is - just that it may be). The importance of this observation simply is that IF your printer would work fine using Epson ink, but would be problematic as you describe here using the inks you are using, that would tell you something about how to solve your problem, and IF not, then you would know ink isn't the issue.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml

Randy Carone

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Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #748 on: June 27, 2012, 05:14:57 PM »

Do you mean how thick 'third party' pigment ink is compared to 'third party' dye ink? So far, in your description, you have not compared Epson ink in your Epson printer with the 'third pary' inks. I know that dye ink solids are less problematic than pigment ink solids but I don't know if your viscosity claim is accurate. Also, I don't know if the viscosity measurement of a static container of pigment ink is higher or lower than the viscosity measurement under shear, which can be dramatically different. One would need to use a capillary viscometer to evaluate that physical property. This property can be as important as 'the correct color' when it comes to using non-Epson inks.
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Randy Carone

iladi

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Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #749 on: June 27, 2012, 05:19:19 PM »

I am shure that Epson ink is carefully designed for each printer. And, probably, Epson ink is superior to most of the third party inks. But my experience so far tells me that a thinner ink is better for long run prints. And require way less maintenance to the printer's parts. With dyes I can barely see ink deposits on flushpad and capstation. Pigments deposits similar to auto grease on the flushpad and capstation. Also i think the little pumps in the printhead are less stressed by a thinner ink. You are right, my problems comes with the ink. THIS INK. when I was using dyes I had zero ink related problems in about 6000 prints, only carts related problems. The only drawback of dye was the fast sun fading problem. Oh, and the gamut. Almost double for dyes compared to pigments. To bad is a long way to USA because I realy want to try the new Cone dyes.

Randy, even epson pigmented ink is thicker than epson dye ink. Dye particles are much much smaller than pigments.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2012, 05:25:24 PM by iladi »
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Randy Carone

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Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #750 on: June 27, 2012, 05:46:13 PM »

Particle size is not the determining factor with respect to 'thickness' or viscosity. I'm fairly certain that dye ink has a wider gamut than pigment - double ? - I doubt it. But what is the point? They fade to less than the gamut of pigment ink in relatively short time frame.
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Randy Carone

Mark D Segal

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Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #751 on: June 27, 2012, 07:04:03 PM »

Even while the dyes are at maximum effectiveness I would like to see rigorous data comparing the gamuts for the different colour groups of those dyes relative to the Epson Ultrachrome HDR inkset. I think if we had this data we may well be surprised by how small the differences could be. The difference was quite visible in the days of the Epson 2000P back in 1999, but much has changed since then.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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enduser

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Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #752 on: June 27, 2012, 10:10:50 PM »

Just   for the record, there are no "particles" in dye inks. The ink is a solution containing dyes and other components in a disolved, or molecular, state.
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chaddro

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Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #753 on: July 01, 2012, 10:14:59 PM »

Hey All! Well, after yet ANOTHER delay for MORE wrong parts sent from Epson, it looks like D1 is going to show up tomorrow mid morning some time. That is if they didn't yet again send the wrong main board...



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chaddro

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Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #754 on: July 02, 2012, 04:35:50 PM »

FINALLY! A functional printer once again. Turns out that something was wrong with the pump-cap station and this was causing the AID to fail.

I have several print jobs in the pipeline. I'll let you know how well the AID performs when set to "every print".

BTW, DON'T DROP your paper roll end caps. One of mine rolled off the table, and **snap** broke the handle. At a 100 dollars a pair you'd think they could use a more durable plastic!
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tomsud

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Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #755 on: July 11, 2012, 10:51:28 AM »

help  :'( :'( :'(
the print head on my Epson 9900 broke down after 82 printed pages ... and the printer is no longer under warranty since 9 months, epson France refuses to sell me a new print head and wonder me to let repair the machine in their workshops for 985 euros the head (+ / -750 U.S. dollars) and 520 euros (+ / - $ 300) for work ...... ouch!! it hurts .... :-\
As I am able to repair it myself (if I have a print head of course)
 I expect a response from this site: that http://www.gedat-spareparts.com  in germany it seems to be the only one who can send me a new print head in europe.
But i wonder !!!
Whatkind of  software do you use to enter the head  "ranking code" I can not find anithing about that on the cd's provided with the 9900.......and of course if I ask Epson France hahaha you know the answer as I do!

 thank you for helping me it would be nice, and this forum is really very interresting I have not read everything ends
Excuse my English I'm using a translator  ;D

Mais je parle anglais ! (in French in the text)
« Last Edit: July 11, 2012, 11:00:04 AM by tomsud »
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Eric Gulbransen

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Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #756 on: July 11, 2012, 05:00:59 PM »

I'm 30% through my next X900 video, tomsud.  Just so happens to be on removing and reinstalling the 7900/9900 printheads.  It's kind of involved, the process, but it is doable by most who are handy with a screwdriver.  Lots of o-rings to damage/lose/put in cockeyed.  Lots of screws to put back in the wrong holes.  And lots, I mean LOTS, of sequential steps to follow.  That's before we even get into the ranking part of it - which also is not impossible, just takes time.

Your goal now is find a head.  Once you do that, the rest gets easier.

tomsud

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Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #757 on: July 12, 2012, 02:52:49 AM »

Thank you for your quick response Eric
that's right you have to be very attentive to all the screws and especially the magnetized screwdriver is essential (on the photo below the tools I used !)
Disassembling reassembling the head took me nearly 3 hours, as my 9900 is relatively new o-rings are in good condition and remain in place
I had the shop that sells print heads on the phone yesterday (luckily I speak German!...Französisch mit einem Akzent...lol)  And there seems to be no problem with them for a new head, (around 900$) if i order it I will receive it within 48 hours, in fact this store is the largest reseller for Europe, after there are also many other stores that sell print heads but mainly in Asia and in China, but that makes me a little scared!
the technician  also asked me to check the cables connecting the head to the motherboard, I did it (again) and  the printer display (again) : "connection error", so  as i think motherboard and cables seem beings in order I must say that the German technicians are very accurate and professional compared to the French!  8)

I also filed a complaint with Epson France, first by the way that my printer as only  82 pages printed and with Epson premium photo paper only, the head had to have a factory default! and secondly by the fact that a  manufacturer is required to supply spare parts of equipment that it sells, it seams that epson voluntarily refuse to sell parts!

So i'm ready to file a legal complaint with the help of a lawyer and an organization of Consumer Inquiries if necessary!

Regarding the procedure of ranking of the head, I am in touch  with a photographer friend from spain he
 had many problems with the quality of maintenance work epson, and finaly... changed the head of his Epson 9880 himself 8 months ago, without in the end entering the code ranking, he have to do several cleaning before printing  of course, but the printer works fine since ... (may be  my friend was lucky and bought a head ready for 9880, but there are  many users who say that this is just a trick to Epson to provide work for their service maintenance!)
In fact this type of print head (ref: F191040, or x6 in asia) is mounted on several Epson models, the German dealer explained to me yesterday that "recording code heads parameters" in the computer of the printer helped it to synchronize properly...I know the operation principle of a piezo print head but somewhere it leaves me dreamy :) :) :)
He did not know if the given program with the 9900 allow by itself this kind of change, he said that some models have it directly in soft whith acces from the control panel and others do not, he also  told me that I would find on the net  a cd called epson resources,who can help me if the 9900 don't have the option,  I seeks for this cd... in case!

So in summary, I do not have any problems for disassembly reassembly (I must say that my nikon d3 is much more difficult to disassemble!... ....oups !!  no trouble for disassemble but to re-assemble  ;D ;D ;D : see the picture of nikon dismounted below and you can cry whith me...)
But as my printer is bloqued into a  fatal error I have no more  access to  internal programs and I do not know if it can execute any procedure of ranking... ::)
Did you  know if your 7900 authorizes by itself this procedure? if it does I think the 9900 will as well!
thank you again
« Last Edit: July 12, 2012, 04:22:54 AM by tomsud »
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Eric Gulbransen

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Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #758 on: July 12, 2012, 03:10:17 PM »

email me tomsud - eric at gotagteam.com

all you need is a pc (not a mac) and you'll be able to rank yourself silly.

clic

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Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #759 on: July 12, 2012, 03:12:03 PM »

Tomsud,


Just for the record, the Euro is at $1.21, so 900€ = $1,100.  Beyond that, my head just got replaced, I watched every second of it, and t is always the same thing, if you have done it, and have the software, it is not like rebuilding an engine, but on another hand, I probably would not do it myself, to many things to worry about, the labor is still somewhat less than the part, I would go for the professional route.  I would though hire just about any other authorized repair person, rather than D1 (for here in the U.S.), as these guys are certainly not worth $175./hour.


Bonne chance,

Jean-Christian
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