Pages: 1 ... 35 36 [37] 38 39 ... 77   Go Down

Author Topic: Epson 7900 from the inside - out  (Read 561822 times)

Ken Doo

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 947
    • Carmel Fine Art Printing & Reproduction
Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #720 on: June 14, 2012, 12:06:35 AM »

Bed, Bath & (way) Beyond also carries hygrometers.  It's a good investment to monitor humidity levels near your printer, as well as where you store media.  A range between 40% to 60% is a good level to maintain humidity.

Eric---I've got a new humidifier for you.   Hate to see you get a clog now after all your hard work...   ;D 

ken

viktor_au

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7
Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #721 on: June 14, 2012, 08:14:45 AM »

Epson Stylus Pro 7900/7910/9900/9910-->1.2.4 General Specifications->
Temperature Operating: 10 to 35 °C
Humidity Operating: 20 to 80% (no condensation)
Logged

DeanChriss

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 546
    • http://www.dmcphoto.com
Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #722 on: June 14, 2012, 09:53:02 PM »

Humidity: In the room where my 7900 lives it's around 30% RH in winter and humidity is regulated with a dehumidifier to 58% in summer. I've had the printer since December 2008, and each winter without fail I have essentially no clogging issues at all. When summer comes the humidity rises and occasional clogging issues return. I don't claim to have any answers but this is what happens. I can't quite believe the printer likes being in 30% humidity, but maybe it does like being cooler. In winter the room is sometimes as cool as 63 or 64 Fahrenheit. Right now it's 70 and the mild occasional clogging has returned. The temperature usually gets to 75 in the heat of August and I guarantee the clogging will be worse then. It always is. The humidity is already as high as it will ever get (58%) but the clogging will get worse when the temps are hotter. Of course this does not prove any cause and effect relationship, but it's gone through the exact same cycle 3.5 times now. FYI, there's a digital temperature and humidity meter near the printer and it's been checked for accuracy.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2012, 09:56:35 PM by DeanChriss »
Logged
- Dean

Peter Le

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 58
    • lewandoimages
Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #723 on: June 15, 2012, 12:10:25 AM »

Epson Stylus Pro 7900/7910/9900/9910-->1.2.4 General Specifications->
Temperature Operating: 10 to 35 °C
Humidity Operating: 20 to 80% (no condensation)
    Everyone that has been around these printers is quite familiar with what Epson claims.  But most everyone also knows you will probably be in a lot of trouble if you keep your print room at 20%. What I am finding out it seems is you can get in as much trouble  or more at high humidity levels. I was never above 80% this spring......really mostly high 60's and low 70's % humidity.  This should be fine according to Epson and your thinking. But it was not.....it was a mess clogging all the time. When the AC came on and the humidity dropped to low 50,s......high of 57%......the clogs were instantly  gone. This doesn't  make a lot of sense if you think of ink drying on the head. But it seems to create the same problem as to low humidity.
Logged

viktor_au

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7
Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #724 on: June 15, 2012, 07:53:53 AM »

    This doesn't  make a lot of sense if you think of ink drying on the head.
A few days ago I visited some other websites and one guy claimed that after he has put a jar with water not far away from the printer the clogged situations were gone. He say that some moisture in the air helps to keep the head from drying out. I am not sure who do I have to believe.
I have to wait for some really hot/humid weather in Australia to know for sure what is going on. (I bought 7900 in November 2011 and didn't pay a lot of attention to the level of humidity).
Logged

datro

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 130
Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #725 on: June 15, 2012, 04:32:41 PM »

Humidity: In the room where my 7900 lives it's around 30% RH in winter and humidity is regulated with a dehumidifier to 58% in summer. I've had the printer since December 2008, and each winter without fail I have essentially no clogging issues at all. When summer comes the humidity rises and occasional clogging issues return. I don't claim to have any answers but this is what happens. I can't quite believe the printer likes being in 30% humidity, but maybe it does like being cooler. In winter the room is sometimes as cool as 63 or 64 Fahrenheit. Right now it's 70 and the mild occasional clogging has returned. The temperature usually gets to 75 in the heat of August and I guarantee the clogging will be worse then. It always is. The humidity is already as high as it will ever get (58%) but the clogging will get worse when the temps are hotter. Of course this does not prove any cause and effect relationship, but it's gone through the exact same cycle 3.5 times now. FYI, there's a digital temperature and humidity meter near the printer and it's been checked for accuracy.

Like Dean, I have had my 7900 since December 2008 and have also noticed in the past 3.5 years that in the higher humidity months it seems the chance of clogging is a bit higher.  I've kept detailed records on this from the day I installed the printer.  Overall, I've had very few clogging problems with my printer.  In the months of Oct-June, I can go several months without a single clogged nozzle. (For some operational context, I do at least several large prints a week regardless of whether I need to or not, and I also agitate my ink cartridges every 30 days).  During the summer months, where my humidity ranges between 55-65%, I might have the occasional clog, usually on Light Cyan but not always.

Based on my experience so far, I have two observations on the overall theme of "humidity" and how it relates to clogging in these printers:

1) Inexpensive hygrometers are notoriously inaccurate for Relative Humidity (RH) readings, even if based on their specs it would seem they are doing the job.  I discovered this after I purchased an Abbeon Hygrometer (for example: http://www.omnicontrols.com/detail.aspx?ID=830).  It's similar to what museums use and is a bit expensive, but it revealed that all my other so-called hygrometers in the house were typically off by over 10 points of RH.  So you have to be careful about how you interpret the RH numbers you see in forums like this.  I suspect that the values people are reporting are not very accurate and you need to be careful about any clogging conclusions that relate to specific RH numbers being reported.

2) I've been wondering why the summer months seem to be more clog-prone, even though in my case it has not been at all severe.  I am coming to the conclusion that it is not specifically a RH value, but rather the variability of RH in the summer months that is the "culprit".  If you have a dehumidifier in your studio (like I do) the possibility of your RH changing back and forth over a 8-10 point range is likely.  Dehumidifiers pull down the RH, they turn off, the RH rises past a certain limit, then the dehumidifer turns back on and the cycle begins again.  This up-down-up-down pattern of RH change can actually put more stress on things in my opinion.  We know this to be the case for the prints themselves (especially when mounted), but I suspect this may also be a factor for the ink-handling parts in our printers, including the head, seals when parked, wipers, flushing box, etc.

This summer I'll be working on how to reduce the variability in RH in my studio in hopes that this might actually reduce the number of times I encounter the occasional clogged nozzle.
Logged

viktor_au

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7
Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #726 on: June 15, 2012, 06:54:57 PM »

A short summary of situation of ink in 7900 air-pressurising system.

    I noticed some ink leak on a floor behind 7900 printer a few months ago.
    I cleaned up the ink and checked the cartridges (I had an original at that time).
    On right side of the printer I found no problems.
    On left side of the printer all of a cartridges had some ink in the air-chamber (the bottom nozzle side of the cartridge).
    It was a time to change most of them as I used them from November 2011.
    I changed and old original for a new 700 ml (I have ordered 1 liter x 11 ink bottles for Epson Pro9900/7900 from Guangdong China (Mainland) via Ali-express). The only one original cartridge left in the printer was the photo-black cartridge, as I didn’t use it.
    Printer was working OK. It took a while for me to notice some ink on the floor again.
    A few days ago I finally took out the printer back cover and found out that the air-pump was covered in ink.
    I contacted Eric. He directed me to Leptech. Leptech answered in a few days.
    I contacted admin from Russian site http://resetters.ru. He didn’t answer.
    Meanwhile I cleaned up the pump and area next to it. The printer's power board is next to the air-pump. The circuit board floor of 7900 is on a angle, so ink couldn’t damage the circuit boards and leaked down away from it.
    I cleaned up the plastic tubes going to and from the air-pump.
    I inspected all cartridges again. No problems found on the right side. The ink in the air-chambers was found on the left side.
    I used syringe (from printer head cleaning solution kit) to pump out the ink from cartridges air-chambers.
    When I was sucking the ink from the original photo-black cartridge I noticed some whistling noise. The noise was coming out somewhere from the top of the cartridge plastic body. The cartridge was damaged.
    I changed the photo-black to a new 700 ml Chinese one. Filled up, resetted the chip.
    I installed the pump and reconnected to cables.
    Switched the printer on. The error 1536 kept coming on.
    Rechecked the pump and wires. Reconnected the motor cable. Error disappeared.
    Printed the nozzle check page. OK.
    Printed the random image. OK.
    Leptech contacted me. He shortly explained the situation. He wrote: ‘It happens a lot on third party ink’.
    I thought it was my only bad luck with such a situation. I do understand that Epson company doesn’t like third party ink suppliers, but in my case it was the original cartridge, that caused the problem. Not the third party one.
    Thanks for the answers, some help and directions.Eric does a good job. I took a lot of notes from his blog Epson 7900 from the inside - out.
    Page with photos is here (for a while):
http://vetrazi.com/Ink_in_air_system/7900_ink_problem15Jun12.php
Logged

randal21

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 88
Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #727 on: June 18, 2012, 12:20:46 PM »

In the middle of a job my yellow ink on my 7900 wasn't printing fully. I was using an Inkpress Warmtone 300 paper for some wedding invitations. I did 4 paired cleanings on the yellow and kept printing nozzle checks. 1/2 of the yellow seems clogged. Could the paper have caused this? I called Epson and he said to check my humidity ...it's at 80% which is fine. Said to check out another yellow ink cartridge which I don't have. Said if the pair cleanings don't work he can call Decision One for me. Now what?
Logged

Mark D Segal

  • Contributor
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9367
    • http://www.markdsegal.com
Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #728 on: June 18, 2012, 12:34:24 PM »

I think it may be premature to call Decision One. After not using my 4900 for two weeks, I found the yellow channel was at first very weak and then dropped out completely. The procedure I used was to do a series of pair cleanings inter-spaced with making a print consisting of one big patch of yellow on a piece of cheap US-Letter sized paper. Do a regular pair cleaning, test the nozzles; if still clogged run the print, then do a stronger pair cleaning (on the 4900 there are two levels of pair cleaning - don't know whether the 7900 also has this feature); then check the nozzles; if not OK, run the print again, then do another strong pair cleaning, etc...I repeated this cycle 7 times and the Yellow channel came back fine and has stayed fine ever since. Running that print is a most important part of the process. If after all this you don't have a properly-functioning yellow channel, then I would agree it makes sense to call in a technician.
Logged
Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml

randal21

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 88
Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #729 on: June 18, 2012, 01:06:17 PM »

Thanks Mark.... thats pretty much what I am doing. I turned on my dehumidifer for a reading and it was more like 66%. I have a new yellow cartridge coming tomorrow to see if the ink cartridge was the culprit. I will continue as you say and see if it let's go so I can finish the job and not call Decision One. Epson was too easy to suggest that.
Logged

randal21

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 88
Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #730 on: June 18, 2012, 01:31:23 PM »

There shows sign of recovery Mark. paired yellow cleaning with a large yellow square and a nozzle check. Cross thy fingers!
Logged

Mark D Segal

  • Contributor
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9367
    • http://www.markdsegal.com
Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #731 on: June 18, 2012, 01:52:00 PM »

Good - keep redoing it and let's hope!
Logged
Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml

randal21

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 88
Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #732 on: June 18, 2012, 02:11:20 PM »

Any logic to why it may have happened? The new variable was the Inkpress Warmtone 300 Rag paper. paper fibers clogging my main color=yellow? Should I widen my platen? The yellow is slowly coming to life but have done alot of pair cleanings on the yellow. Stay away Decision One! 
Logged

Mark D Segal

  • Contributor
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9367
    • http://www.markdsegal.com
Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #733 on: June 18, 2012, 02:17:54 PM »

It's unlikely to be the paper. There is little "logic" to this. Something - either air - or debris is preventing yellow ink from firing properly. You just need to exercise it out by repeated prints and cleans (use the stronger option for the pair), but I'd think if after 7 to 10 of these cycles it's not back to normal you need a tech.
Logged
Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml

randal21

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 88
Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #734 on: June 18, 2012, 02:49:15 PM »

All is well!!!! Back to the job. Took at least 20 power cleanings and nozzle checks and printing the large yellow square. Thanks for sharing your experience with clogging. I got alittle anxious due to the other 900 series problems. The Epson tech people need to get better versed before they call Decision One. What is the higher lever paired cleaning you referred to? Not the total power cleaning right? Don't see the choice on my printer. Hidden?  thanks so much. Made my day!
Logged

Mark D Segal

  • Contributor
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9367
    • http://www.markdsegal.com
Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #735 on: June 18, 2012, 05:12:48 PM »

It could well be that the Epson 4900, being a more recent model than the 7900, has some different features. In the pairs cleaning utility of the 4900, there are two levels of cleaning - normal and more powerful. It is not a general power cleaning of all channels - just restricted to the pairs. Perhaps the 7900 does not have this feature in its pairs cleaning utility. The most I have had to exercise repeated cycles of pairs cleaning and patch printing is 7 replications, and that was after the printer had not been used for about 4 weeks. Normally, if it is not left idle for more than 5 days the nozzle checks come up fine.

It was an Epson tech quite some years ago, when I was having problems with my 4000, who instructed me about running the prints between cleanings. It would appear that in Epson, like many other companies, the knowledge and experience of the tech support staff is not uniform, and this should be expected. The way around that is for the company to maintain an on-line roster of best practices culled from the experience of their technical support people over the years. Then when a customer calls-in with a problem, the person answering the call would have been trained to consult the best-practices roster before responding. If they aren't doing this, they should be.
Logged
Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml

Mark D Segal

  • Contributor
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9367
    • http://www.markdsegal.com
Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #736 on: June 18, 2012, 05:14:20 PM »

And by the way, great that you got it back up and running properly. A story with a happy ending! I'm pleased it worked out for you.
Logged
Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml

chaddro

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 113
Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #737 on: June 18, 2012, 06:01:57 PM »

When did you last update your firmware?

Back in November/December they added an "Execute (Powerful)" paired cleaning to the menu on my 9890.

Also, there are some options in the serviceman menu for stronger level cleanings, but would have to research those or defer to a more experience member. As yet I have
not had to resort to this. Three paired cleanings (with prints in between) has been my limit.

Logged

chaddro

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 113
Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #738 on: June 18, 2012, 06:44:41 PM »

The following information is from the 79/99 Field Repair Guide and has probably been posted here in whole or part before, but I include as a reminder. Please note: Enter serviceman mode at your own risk. You can majorly screw your machine up if you are careless! So do so with caution and at your own risk.

Please also note that, not surprisingly, Epson chose to leave out most of this info from the user manuals. My 9890 User Manual only explains how to perform a cleaning. Does not go into the further, RATHER IMPORTANT, salient points that I believe are quite clear to any of us long time users.

Also note the SS Cleaning Mode. Dread the thought of the amount of ink spent, but this may be faster than 10 cleaning cycles in a row:

Now, for your reading enjoyment... to quote in full:

Cleaning Cycles (Types and Uses)
About All Cleaning Cycles
The Ink System is tuned to the gentle ink flow demand generated by printing.

All Cleaning cycles employ a much stronger ink demand than printing.

It is not unusual for the Ink System to “pull back” after a cleaning cycle drawing air or ink from the Cap into the Print Head Nozzle Plate. This can cause more Nozzles to be missing after a cleaning cycle than before. It also can cause contaminated (used) ink to be mixed with the “fresh” ink in the Nozzle Plate.

If the same Nozzles are missing after each cleaning cycle, continue cleaning.

If different Nozzles are missing after each cleaning cycle, stop cleaning, and print until the air or contaminated ink has been expelled from the Print Head.

Normal Cleaning: User Menu/MAINTENANCE/CLEANING/NORMAL

When a normal cleaning is activated, the Printer cleans all 5 color pairs, and uses the AID Circuitry to check results. According the information reported by the AID Circuitry the Printer increases or decreases the strength of the clean-ing cycle appropriately, and only cleans the color pairs that require additional cleaning.

The Printer always cleans color pairs individually. A color pair is defined as 2 colors that share a Cap. In theory the Printer will only clean the color pairs that have missing Nozzles. Cleaning color pairs individually takes more time, but saves Ink.

Color Pair Cleaning: User Menu/MAINTENANCE/CLEANING/CLEAN FOR EACH COLOR

Color pair cleaning is the cleaning method with the most efficient use of ink. How to use effectively:
1. Print an nozzle check, and identify the color pair with the most missing nozzles.
2. Clean that color pair only. After the Printer cleans the instructed color pair, it will use the AID Circuitry to determine the appropriate cleaning levels for any remaining missing nozzles on other color pairs. This method uses less ink than any other.

Power Cleaning: User Menu/Maintenance

The purpose of the Power Cleaning cycle is to remove air from the Negative Pressure Dampers, or air from the Print Head side of the Dampers.

The Power Cleaning cycle closes the Valves that restrict ink flow from the Ink Bays while simultaneously running the Cleaning Pump to build a vacuum on the Print Head Nozzle Plate. When sufficient vacuum is created, the Printer opens the Valves allowing the ink to “fill the vacuum”. This technique facilitates the removal of air from the system. Air in the system causes Nozzle drop out while printing.

Technicians: Use the Power Cleaning cycle after changing Dampers or Print Head.
User: Use the Power Cleaning cycle if Nozzles drop out while printing.

SS Cleaning: Maintenance Mode 1 (Hold the Pause button at power on)

SS Cleaning has a strong ultra sonic component. The Piezo Elements internal to the Print Head are used to attempt to break up pigment particles that may be clogging the interior of the Print Head.

Use SS Cleaning when a Nozzle can not be cleared through normal cleaning.

Color Pairs on the Print Head (Listed Left to Right)

1. Cyan and Vivid Magenta
2. Photo Black (Matte Black) and Light Black
3. Orange and Green
4. Light Light Black and Yellow
5. Vivid Light Magenta and Light Cyan.

EPILOGUE:

Funny thing happened to me the other day while printing: Service Call error 0010.
This had Epson tech support put me on hold for a good 10 minutes. Turns out this is related to the AID Circuitry's function. I just recently turn AID on after every printer (in an effort to better understand this whole shabang). Now, I CAN still print just fine, but AID fails - the printer cannot self check it's nozzles.

I think this goes all the way back to last August when I bought the printer. I would get "Automatic Cleaning Failed, RETRY?"
Initially, I put my trust in Epson and let the machine perform the cleaning, but it NEVER has a successful cleaning despite clean nozzle checks. I did complain to Epson about this, but they had no solutions. My supposition is that AID had never worked on my printer in the first place, and only after I turned it on to EVERY print did the error code through.

Now I'm waiting on a visit from Decision One. I spoke briefly with the tech over the phone (still waiting on parts) and he said it could be anywhere from easy (1 hour) to hard (4+ hours).

Will keep you updated!

-chaddro


Logged

chaddro

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 113
Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #739 on: June 21, 2012, 02:35:57 PM »

My Visit from Decision One -> INDECISIVE!

So it took a solid week for my parts to show up, and low and behold of the three parts ordered (pump cap assembly, main-board, and AID board), only the AID board was correct.

The tech knew the pump cap was wrong at first site, but the main-boards look very familiar. The tech took out the old one and put new one in and didn't notice it was wrong until he tried to plug a connector in that had no receptacle. This board is apparently for the 7890 (!?!).

So out comes the wrong board to put my original board back in. Sounds logical? But nope... (Now, remember... I could print before. It's the printer's AID function that has failed.)
After re-assembling the machine, the USB port doesn't work.  I suggest we try the Ethernet and fortunately I can still print. Tech has no idea what could have happened to
the board to kill USB (we did try two different computers and also cables).

Now this tech says that it's rare to have the wrong items shipped. So I'm the unlucky 2%'er here. No idea when they will get back to me either. I have to wait on a call since they are going to have to order parts again.

BTW, when the tech ran the AID test from withing serviceman mode, he says that it should read "ok" on every line. Mine is in complete failure. Check yours. It doesn't hurt anything. AID is supposed to be superior to running manual nozzle checks. The tech pretty much thinks it's been bad from day one.

... stay tuned for episode two ...


 
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 35 36 [37] 38 39 ... 77   Go Up