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Author Topic: Epson 7900 from the inside - out  (Read 695457 times)

Alto

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Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #700 on: May 18, 2012, 04:50:46 AM »

Hi Eric et Al

I have been following the thread with interest does anyone know the specific RGB values for Epson inks It occurs to me that if you have a problem with say the yellow channel why not just print a block of that colour.

You could have a jepeg patch/wedge/patten for that specific colour and then if there is a problem just print that specific file over and over .

This may or may not save ink, you know how your mind wanders while waiting for a print to emerge.

Just my 2 cents

regards

Jon
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Eric Gulbransen

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Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #701 on: May 18, 2012, 11:26:19 AM »

My mind wandered there many times already Jon.  It's a good idea, it makes sense, it would save ink.  But in my experience it doesn't work.  I printed soled pages and pages and pages of yellow.  Unfortunately it didn't change a thing for us.

What HAL told me is this is a very simple problem.  The holes (nozzles) in the X900 printhead are just very tiny.  It is therefore so much more difficult to clear a clog because you face an elementary challenge - forcing something big (your hunk of dried ink) through something small (your nozzle).  This is why HAL insists the only way to clear an "unclogable" clog is to draw it up through the printhead in reverse - out the back of the head, not through the face.

You can very easily see now, after all this discussion, how critical it is to have a clean wiper.  Imagine the half dried ink on a dirty wiper blade being forced into the face of your head with each "cleaning" pass it makes after a cleaning cycle.  This really is why sometimes X900 users suffer more clogs AFTER cleanings than they had before them!

The print I attached here helps do something very simple; it flushes that tiny bit of ink just in the face of the printhead that is most susceptible to drying & causing future clogs.

OH, and I know this has been debated back and forth a bunch of times - for what it's worth HAL suggests turning auto cleaning OFF, and leaving your printer ON while not in use.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2012, 11:57:46 AM by Eric Gulbransen »
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chaddro

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Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #702 on: May 18, 2012, 11:53:45 AM »

Hi Eric et Al

I have been following the thread with interest does anyone know the specific RGB values for Epson inks It occurs to me that if you have a problem with say the yellow channel why not just print a block of that colour.

You could have a jepeg patch/wedge/patten for that specific colour and then if there is a problem just print that specific file over and over .

This may or may not save ink, you know how your mind wanders while waiting for a print to emerge.

Although a good idea, this does not work when printing through the Epson driver. Your RGB values are interpreted and the printer prints what it thinks you want. The best you can do is get close.

You would need a RIP to send CMYK data to the printer without the epson driver getting in the way.  There may be another way. If there is a feature in either the Serviceman mode, or service software to linearize the printer, you should be able to get per nozzle swatches. I saw this in my epson 3800, but will have to look to see if available in the 9900.

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elisabeth russell

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Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #703 on: May 18, 2012, 12:00:06 PM »

I want to post a very sincere 'thank you' to Eric for starting this thread and documenting your finds. My 9900's Y and LC went missing a few weeks ago and I've had numerous issues with the thing from the beginning... I didn't know where to start, my warranty was expired, a repair wasn't in the budget, and I do not know the first thing about electrical repair. (Seriously, I googled how to remove a ribbon cables and wired cables during this project) I'd gotten the Field Repair Guide about 6 months ago but I didn't have the confidence to dive in until I started reading this thread.

After lots of practice runs to get comfortable with taking the machine apart, this week I replaced the damper assembly and the wiper blade and I also pulled the Pump and Cap Ass'y and cleaned it. (Also caused myself more problems by bumping a rubber hose on the backside of it which resulted in massive air suckage and terrifying nozzle checks, but finally got that solved too w/ gaffers tape for now.)

 Bottom line--my printer is now printing LC and Y again!  :D  :D :D ! Thank you so much Eric and Steve--I'm so sorry that your head wasn't repairable and I empathize about the obsession aspect of printer repair--I've been dreaming of the Field Repair Guide for the last few weeks :-\---but I'm so very grateful that you shared your experience. You've probably saved a lot of printers from ending up with a similar fate. I'm off to make a donation which I hope will be used on some beverages for you and Steve.

Many, many, thanks.  Lis

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na goodman

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Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #704 on: May 18, 2012, 12:02:36 PM »

Although a good idea, this does not work when printing through the Epson driver. Your RGB values are interpreted and the printer prints what it thinks you want. The best you can do is get close.

You would need a RIP to send CMYK data to the printer without the epson driver getting in the way.  There may be another way. If there is a feature in either the Serviceman mode, or service software to linearize the printer, you should be able to get per nozzle swatches. I saw this in my epson 3800, but will have to look to see if available in the 9900.

What is the procedure to get to serviceman mode on the 3800?
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Eric Gulbransen

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Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #705 on: May 18, 2012, 12:13:42 PM »

WOW Lis, you just made my week.  I would say you made my month but last weekend's 180mph victory just edged you out. 

Don't feel bad about having to google the wiring removal/reinstall.  I actually make Steve do that part  :-)

Happy printing again Lis!

Alistair

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Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #706 on: May 19, 2012, 12:47:01 PM »

Although a good idea, this does not work when printing through the Epson driver. Your RGB values are interpreted and the printer prints what it thinks you want. The best you can do is get close.

You would need a RIP to send CMYK data to the printer without the epson driver getting in the way.  There may be another way. If there is a feature in either the Serviceman mode, or service software to linearize the printer, you should be able to get per nozzle swatches. I saw this in my epson 3800, but will have to look to see if available in the 9900.



You can use QTR to do this by creating a curve for each channel. I use this method on my 7880. QTR used to be obtainable for a $50 donation. Presumably this is still the case.
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Denniswcr

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Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #707 on: May 19, 2012, 02:47:29 PM »

Using Windows 7 and the print program "Qimage",  I printed the solid color patterns on my 7900.  I set the driver for "no color adjustment" and sent the file to the printer without using a profile and leaving the image in it's original color space.  Using a 10X loop, to examine the printed result, I found the the colors appeared to be using only one ink as no other colored dots were present.  There was a slight exception with the "LK" patch as it did show a few cyan dots but they were very sparse.  From this I feel that occasionaly printing the color patches should do the job of keeping the heads cleaner, as suggested, if the chart is printed with no profile and the drivers color adjustment is turned off.

Dennis
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LFPTECH

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Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #708 on: May 19, 2012, 07:00:54 PM »

This is HAL.  Eric have done an excellent job to educate and entertain you guys for the past few months. I am setting up a new thread to answer Epson printer question. Check out the thread "Epson 7900/9900 or Epson printer repair questions? Other brands? May be."

PM me for any question with your phone #  (US only). I'll answer your question either by email or phone.  Then, You post the question and answer in your words to the thread.  Please keep the thread with question and answer for Epson printer REPAIR only.

Disclosure:

I am trained technician by Epson with about 20 repairs on 7900/9900. I am certified and trained for all Epson products - scanner, printers, projectors...

Our company does not perform in-warranty repair on Epson 7000, 9000, 10000 pro series printers.  We can do in-warranty and out-of-waranty repair for all products including Pro 3000 and 4000 series. We can do out-of-warranty repair on 7000, 9000 and 10000 series only.  For warranty works, Decision One is the exclusive repair facility. Call them.

When I answer your question, all info are my personal opinion and has nothing to do with Epson. You use my advice at your own risk. If I don't know the answer, I can find the answer from my sources.

If I sell parts to you, I am making a profit. I'll give 10% discount if you mention you are from LULA. We have to follow very strict guidelines for selling print head to my customers.

I am going to repack the print head cleaning solution and sell to my customers. If any one interested, please PM me. No guarrantee and use it at your own risk.

I have to protect the interest for other repair facilities which have invested a lot of money on training their employees, equipemnt, tools and training materials. Don't ask me for manuals, parts list, adjustment and testing programs. My answer is always NO. Besides Decision One, there are many qualifed repair facilities in US. Locate them at Epson Web Site.

If you need ink and paper, I can get you very good price. I worked with a couple small authorized dealers who can sell you Epson ink and paper almost at cost. PM me if you want to knowwho they are. If you live outside CA, you are lucky, there is no sales tax and shipping time and cost is about the same as where you are buying from now. The reason I recommend them beacause if I have questions about printer, ink, paper, rip, software or other related questions, I go to them.

On the other hand, if your dealers give you good support and are very knowledgeable, please support them by giving them more business.

If anyone who want to dispose or give away the DEAD 7900/9900 (I prefer 9900), please let me know. I am trying to do a project on modifying and repairing method on these printers with a friend. I can't afford to pay a lot but willing to pay for all shipping cost within US. If modification works, I will let you guys know.
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Eric Gulbransen

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Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #709 on: May 19, 2012, 09:41:35 PM »

Using Windows 7 and the print program "Qimage",  I printed the solid color patterns on my 7900.  I set the driver for "no color adjustment" and sent the file to the printer without using a profile and leaving the image in it's original color space.  Using a 10X loop, to examine the printed result, I found the the colors appeared to be using only one ink as no other colored dots were present.  There was a slight exception with the "LK" patch as it did show a few cyan dots but they were very sparse.  From this I feel that occasionaly printing the color patches should do the job of keeping the heads cleaner, as suggested, if the chart is printed with no profile and the drivers color adjustment is turned off.

Dennis


Thanks for checking that out Dennis.  Great to know!

MBrew

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Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #710 on: May 20, 2012, 11:56:51 AM »

Eric, 
      I also bought a used 7900.  As we all know, you are rolling the dice when you buy used w/no warranty.  I stumbled on your thread and am amazed at the detail, effort and tenacity exhibited as you fearlessly attempted to bring it back to life.  Also I commend the exceptionally strong character traits exhibited by yourself and Dan Berg.  I'd like to say a big "THANK YOU" from all of us lurkers that gained insight and confidence that we can do the simple maintenance on our _900 Epsons.  I'm sure now that you have it up and running, you are standing in awe as the phenomenal masterpieces roll out!

Thanks again
Mike Brewington

http://www.brewsphoto.com
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Peter Le

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Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #711 on: May 20, 2012, 08:03:34 PM »

      I think this thread has and will be very helpful for anyone running a Epson printer.... and now with the inclusion of LFPTECH I think it will be even more helpful. For these things Eric....I and I'm sure anyone venturing in here with a Epson problem want to thank you very much for getting this thread started. I think this thread should be tacked to the top of this forum. NOW if we could only get some input from EPSON !! After all they are the ones getting our money !! I think they would want us to keep them running....they make a mint selling ink I'm sure. As for staying quiet so we just buy a new printer from them.....I think this is very poor reasoning. It seems to me every relatively new large format Epson that becomes a large paper weight before it's time is really just a sale for Canon...not Epson. So where are you Epson.....Speak up
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randal21

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Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #712 on: May 22, 2012, 10:39:40 AM »

Such a wonderful gesture to us Epson 900 series owners. I can't find the PM button to ask you where I can find the great prices on ink as you suggested. Please email me at [email protected] with their names. Appreciate all your help.   Randal21
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Eric Gulbransen

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Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #713 on: May 22, 2012, 11:14:33 AM »

Such a wonderful gesture to us Epson 900 series owners. I can't find the PM button to ask you where I can find the great prices on ink as you suggested. Please email me at [email protected] with their names. Appreciate all your help.   Randal21

Just hit the user's name, which will bring you to their profile.  Near the bottom of their profile under "additional information" hit "send this member a personal message".  That should get er done!

viktor_au

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Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #714 on: June 12, 2012, 08:09:10 PM »

Need an advice, please.
The ink pump (I think that is the name) is leaking ink.
It does pump, I can here the motor and I do see the ink moves in the tube.
When I have disconnected the output pipe (tested and I couldn't blow through) I got the error code 1537.
When I switch the printer off ink leaks badly.

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Eric Gulbransen

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Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #715 on: June 12, 2012, 11:34:52 PM »

Little background will help.  Did you take it apart, and now it leaks - or did it just start leaking?  Not sure what you mean by ink pump - is the leak coming from the unit that houses the head? 

Total guesswork here - if you took the damper assembly out you disconnected the ink lines.  If you did this you came in contact with an O-ring which is critical for sealing the ink lines.  These O-rings are black, all connected to one another in a series of figure-8s, and they are rather delicate.  It sounds like this is the source of your leak(s).

viktor_au

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Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #716 on: June 13, 2012, 08:00:55 AM »

No Eric. I didn't take it apart yet. I am not sure what is the proper word for this pump. This is probably not an ink pump. This pump is NOT next to the head assembly and styes behind the circuit boards. Please have a look at the photos.
It is next to the power plug.
I had to take away the printer back panel, or two to be correct to see what is going on and where from the leak coming.
I can be wrong, but a few month ago, before I read your webpages and switched off the auto-cleaning function, I had some clogged issues, and had to use the power cleaning with one of the cartridges at 10%. I can be wrong, but I think the leak started at that time. And the ink in the system (whatever it is) is still from that time.
The pump has one in-line, coming somewhere from the front of the printer and the other one goes out to the maintenance tank area. Hard to say where...
When I connected to the pump output some piece of a tiny pipe and held my finger over the end of it pressing hard, the pump stoped working. When I opened it, the pumps started to work again. Is it controlled by pressure valve?
The ink color is green-blue. I checked the ink cartridges. Some on the left (looking from the front) have at the plug-in end the same ink on a bottom. I use 750 transparent cartridges and can see, that the cartridge has two sections. One is the main one for the printer ink and the second small one for the ??? ink. 
Is it a part of a printer dumping system?
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Eric Gulbransen

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Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #717 on: June 13, 2012, 10:27:26 AM »

You need to contact our good friend "HAL".    His screen name is LFPTECH.  Look him up on this thread and PM him, he will take good care of you.  I have never taken this pump apart (or even seen it for that matter).  http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=67241.0

Eric Gulbransen

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Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #718 on: June 13, 2012, 12:33:53 PM »

It's ironic I came home last night to a post on this thread.  Kind of stole my wind, ironically I actually had plans to post here last night and update the state of all things "X900" in my life.  I'll do that now.

My AAA insurance claim is still dragging along at the pace of a senile Tree Sloth.  I have not been reimbursed a dime yet, so I still have no real gear to shoot with.  If I did I would already have taken our head apart and taken some cool macro shots.  I will do this in time, I promise. 

Our 7900 is up and running like the good ole boy it was designed to be.  Of course I challenge it regularly due to the fact that not only am I simply an enthusiast, but now I am actually an enthusiast with no camera.  So what have we all realized an X900 hates more than anything?  That's right, sitting still.  WTF, I am a challenge.

So I've been quietly thinking about this moisture situation.  I do not have a humidifier, but I bet I should.  And considering some of the stories I read in this thread about dust, this has me thinking even more.  When I get back from my drive to Colorado and back I am going to design a special cover for this machine.  Not just a dust cover though, my idea is to make it be somewhat of a moisture barrier as well.  I intend to weight the edges of the cover so it stretches tight to the floor, and make the cover out of something water resistant - this way it holds moisture in/keeps dry air out.  Then perhaps, and of course I intend to test this properly, I will place a pale of water inside the cover under the machine.  Might be this cover/pale combination could help maintain an X900 friendly micro-climate.  We will see, right now it's just a fantasy.

So why am I driving to Colorado and back?  Oh this is the best part of this post.  I am driving 1,200 miles west to Colorado, and my friend Edward the juggler, from this very forum, is driving east to Colorado.  We plan to meet Friday night, where I will ask him to teach me how to juggle and I will buy his not-functioning 9900.  When I get back, the second chapter of this thread will come to life - "How to juggle a dead 9900"

See you in a week!

Eric

Peter Le

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Re: Epson 7900 from the inside - out
« Reply #719 on: June 13, 2012, 11:25:21 PM »

    Eric.......I am working on what humidity these printers really like ( to much might be as bad as to little) and what has brought me to this possible idea I will explain.......I have a 7890 for all practical purpose it is really a 7900 without green and orange(even has the lines and ink cartridge slots but they are just empty). This printer ran perfectly for about 9 months......many times a week went by with out printing......always did least a nozzle check once a week. But it even went a month with only a nozzle check once a week....but no other prints went through it. Never a clog that a quick pairs clean didn't clear. This whole time it was between 44% and 57% humidity. This March the weather here was cool and kind of humid....ranging anywhere from 55% to 80%. Outside temp was high 50's to low 60's at night and 60's to low 70's during the day. Wonderfull weather so windows opened up day and night enjoying the weather. Not realizing it at 1st but this is when my printer problems began.....dropped the complete cyan channel.......tring to clear it lost the complete magentas channel. Call to Epson brought out the completely inept Decision One tech who couldn't even figure out how to open it up.....then proceeded to acid sweat all over my circuit boards(we will stop there....this is not about them). Any way a power clean, some new parts and wiper blade and it was kind of working. But it was clogging almost continuously. Then it was getting to warm out for open windows and the AC was turned on.......now watching the humidity level it was back to 47% to 57% and to my amazement the clogging stopped instantly. I am not positive and I am afraid to let the humidity level get high again to be sure....but this seems to point to a high humidity level being as bad as to low. I would be careful of putting a pale of water under your cover unless you are in a very very dry climate. Get a humidity and temperature meter from Radio Shack...they are around 16 bucks and work well. See if you can keep it between 45% and 60% and see if it sits well. It would sure be nice if Epson would supply us with info like this so we could save ourselves the stress of figuring this stuff out. Peter
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