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Author Topic: Save new screen profile as V4 or V2....  (Read 2597 times)

Etrsi_645

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Save new screen profile as V4 or V2....
« on: January 25, 2012, 02:02:04 pm »

I have been using V4, but I recently read that Andrew said there is not currently any advantage to using V4 profiles for anything (if I understood him correctly)...

thanks,

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Schewe

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Re: Save new screen profile as V4 or V2....
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2012, 03:22:16 pm »

There is not yet any benefit and many potential issues with V4 ICC profiles. Stick with V2.
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digitaldog

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Re: Save new screen profile as V4 or V2....
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2012, 03:50:26 pm »

There is not yet any benefit and many potential issues with V4 ICC profiles. Stick with V2.

Yup.
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WombatHorror

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Re: Save new screen profile as V4 or V2....
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2012, 07:04:43 pm »

I have been using V4, but I recently read that Andrew said there is not currently any advantage to using V4 profiles for anything (if I understood him correctly)...

thanks,



v4 profiles are better for sure in the non-practical sense, however not all programs support them so in practice they could be potentially infinitely worse, it depends and sometimes mixing v4 and v2 can lead to odd things if the programs don't handle everything perfectly.

v2 leaves lots of things up in the air, such as the exact chromatic adaption method used, was it actually used or not, what was the assumed perceptual intent PCS, what sort of black point compensation assumption and so on that could trick smart CMM since they have to guess what the real deal is while v4 makes things more explicit and some of the issues may have somewhat held back larger scale adoption of perceptual intents and smart CMMs.

v4 also gives more bits of precision to certain things such as gamma exponents and such, I believe.

I really think that it's more than time that programs started all supporting v4 and slowly doing away with v2.

v2 specs were really something of a mess. It seems a shame that v4 still get shoved to the side all the time and called worse, etc. when it is v2 that should be getting ragged on and every thing should be receiving pressure to switch to v4.

v2 specs are actually open to far more potential issues and mistakes and a lot more weird stuff like pseduo colorimetric+perceptual called colorimetric and on and on.


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Schewe

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Re: Save new screen profile as V4 or V2....
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2012, 07:10:36 pm »

I really think that it's more than time that programs started all supporting v4 and slowly doing away with v2.

I don't disagree...but it's not just the apps that have to work, it's the OS's and most notably, Colorsync on Mac. The cyan tint in white backgrounds was actually an Apple print pipeline problem not an application problem...

I know who to push on for color management apps, Adobe and Epson, but there's nobody I know of to push on at Apple...

In the meantime, in a production environment I would avoid V4 profiles...
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digitaldog

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Re: Save new screen profile as V4 or V2....
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2012, 07:15:48 pm »

One big issue is that none of the major players support PRMG with their V4 profiles. Without that, we’ve got V4 profiles pertty much in name only and all the associated issues.
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WombatHorror

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Re: Save new screen profile as V4 or V2....
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2012, 12:44:38 am »

One big issue is that none of the major players support PRMG with their V4 profiles. Without that, we’ve got V4 profiles pertty much in name only and all the associated issues.

But is that any worse than a random PCS gamut for perceptual intent and it being unknown as to whether chromatic adaption was applied and using what method etc.?

Anyway maybe it is safer to use v2 for now, but that just speaks to the utter mess the major player's CMMs are in when the more random profile version works out better.
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WombatHorror

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Re: Save new screen profile as V4 or V2....
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2012, 12:46:57 am »

I don't disagree...but it's not just the apps that have to work, it's the OS's and most notably, Colorsync on Mac. The cyan tint in white backgrounds was actually an Apple print pipeline problem not an application problem...

I know who to push on for color management apps, Adobe and Epson, but there's nobody I know of to push on at Apple...

In the meantime, in a production environment I would avoid V4 profiles...

That doesn't sound to good on the Apple end of things. I've never used Apple so I don't know anything about what is going on in terms of CMM on that end. Apple can't force all color management to go through an OS CMM can it? No custom CMM allowed? Then again Apple does seem to like to control things.
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Schewe

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Re: Save new screen profile as V4 or V2....
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2012, 02:10:49 am »

Apple can't force all color management to go through an OS CMM can it? No custom CMM allowed? Then again Apple does seem to like to control things.

Yep...it's really hard to bypass anything relating to Colorsync in the Mac OS...and yes, Apple tends to like total, absolute, total control even if that control is suboptimal...
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digitaldog

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Re: Save new screen profile as V4 or V2....
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2012, 10:24:45 am »

But is that any worse than a random PCS gamut for perceptual intent and it being unknown as to whether chromatic adaption was applied and using what method etc.?

Yes, when bugs and other issues produce inferior output.

Quote
Anyway maybe it is safer to use v2 for now, but that just speaks to the utter mess the major player's CMMs are in when the more random profile version works out better.

Yes indeed! On paper, there isn’t anything about V4 profiles that should not be well accepted. In reality, it hasn’t happened and worse, it has added confusion in the market and poor results.
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JeffKohn

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Re: Save new screen profile as V4 or V2....
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2012, 11:37:02 am »

One big compatibility issue for many folks is that Firefox doesn't support V4 profiles (on Windows, at least).
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stormyboy

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Re: Save new screen profile as V4 or V2....
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2012, 12:03:16 pm »

I believe it is possible to set up Firefox in Windows to do V4.

http://gearoracle.com/guides/firefox-color-management/

Tom
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