Nec or Eizo...

[Schwenny]

I have the NEC SpectraView 2690 (the European version with the US software) that I've been really happy with for 4 years. I'm now going to get a new monitor and I was looking at the NEC SpectraView Reference 271, the European version. But when I visited New York recently one store showed the NEC and Eizo 24" models next to each other and had a reference print in a GTI Print Viewer. And the Eizo was a lot more neutral than the NEC that looked yellow. It was the Eizo CG245W and the NEC 241. In the US there's a big price difference but here in Europe it's not. If only looking on what I saw I would definetly get the Eizo! But since I'm happy with my NEC 2690 I don't want to decide that easily. Does anybody else have any experience with both?

The monitor I'm thinking of now is the bigger Eizo 27" CG275W, I can get it for a good price here. The NEC SpectraView Reference 271 would still be a little bit cheaper but not so much.

The guy in the store in NYC did say that they don't recommend screens bigger than 24" since they aren't as even when they get bigger. He said that even NEC says that themselves. So would I be stupid to get the 27" model?

I know that a lot of people here and in other forums and articles speak highly of NEC, that's how I got my 2690... But is there anybody that actually knows enough about the difference between the two brands?

Håkan

[Schewe]

The grass on the other side of the fence is not necessarily greener...and I would never take the word of a sales person about anything...other than price.

[digitaldog]

But when I visited New York recently one store showed the NEC and Eizo 24" models next to each other and had a reference print in a GTI Print Viewer. And the Eizo was a lot more neutral than the NEC that looked yellow.

Sounds like the sales people at the shop need to learn how to properly calibrate the NEC. I can’t believe they would deliberately make a lesser expensive reference display mismatch the print on purpose, that is dishonest. Has to be lack of knowledge <g>.

But is there anybody that actually knows enough about the difference between the two brands?

Well one cost a heck of a lot more than the other.

[Steve Weldon]

After owning NEC monitors with SVII.. I would never buy another brand without a salesman making available a complete workstation and allowing me to work my way through profiling the monitor.  This is because SVII makes it so easy and they take the guess work out of it. 

Since buying my NEC's I've slowly went back and "adjusted" previous images because the way they looked on the web wasn't the way I intended.  I'd worked out a way to make prints match with my previous monitors and that's great, but when web publishing for my site became a bigger priority I needed my web images to be right for as many viewers as possible.  Again, NEC makes this easy, and they make changing to another color space for printing or pre-press easy.

The Eizo might be great.. but I'd want to be able to do these things in the store just so I know..

[Schwenny]

Well, nobody in the store said that the NEC was a bad monitor. It was obvious that it was a big difference looking at the two monitors next to each other. I was very surprised and hardly believed what I saw. So the sales man that works in this major store for pro photographers and retouchers re-calibrated both monitors in front of me. And it was the same result, the Eizo with built in calibrator was very neutral looking exactly like the test print in the GTI box. The NEC was yellow, maybe not a huge difference but enough for a monitor like this. As far as I could see the settings was the right ones to calibrate these monitors.

He did point out the price difference and that the NEC display was good enough for most people. But for me in Europe it's not really a big price difference, I can get the NEC SpectraView Reference 271 with the calibrator for about US $2.140 and the Eizo CG275W with the built in calibrator for about US $2.380 so the difference for me is about US $240 so that's not really the deal breaker.

In the mid 80's I worked myself in a camera store so I know how easy it is to say anything about anything and people trust what you say. But in this case it didn't feel that he had to say too much, I saw the difference and I saw him calibrate both monitors connected to the same computer.

So I'm still confused if I should stay with NEC or go with the Eizo. And I'm also wondering if there is any truth that anything over 24" is not as even over the full screen. According to the sales man even NEC says that. I never heard that before so I don't know where it comes from.

Håkan

[digitaldog]

So the sales man that works in this major store for pro photographers and retouchers re-calibrated both monitors in front of me. And it was the same result, the Eizo with built in calibrator was very neutral looking exactly like the test print in the GTI box.

Doesn’t change the fact he didn’t calibrate the NEC to produce a print match and that is oh so possible. Too yellow, alter the WP setting. The wrong settings are the wrong settings.

[Schwenny]

So what do you say went wrong in the settings?

And what is the right settings to Calibrate the 271?

[digitaldog]

So what do you say went wrong in the settings?
And what is the right settings to Calibrate the 271?

The setting that produces the match!
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/why_are_my_prints_too_dark.shtml

[Schwenny]

Thank You! I will read this again.

So is there any truth not to go bigger than 24" monitor. Apparently even NEC says that their monitors aren't as even when they get bigger according to the salesman (and yes I know he could say anything...).

The setting that produces the match!
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/why_are_my_prints_too_dark.shtml

[elliot_n]

Like you I'm based in Europe where Eizo monitors are not significantly more expensive than their NEC counterparts.

I bought an Eizo CG275W a few months ago after corresponding with a photographer who had returned several NEC PA271s to his dealer, unhappy with their colour and tonal uniformity. Eventually the dealer suggested he try an Eizo CG275W. He is very happy with it. And so am I with mine.

Someone mentioned how easy it is to calibrate an NEC. It can't be easier than the Eizo, which will do it whilst you're sleeping.

[Schwenny]

So is there any reason why I shouldn't buy the Eizo CG275W? For me it's only US $240 more than the NEC since I buy it in Europe. And the NEC SpectraView model is not the same in Europe like the one in the US.

I understand that most of the gurus here have only worked with NEC in recent years. And the reason for that is in the US the Eizo is too expensive? Or is there other reasons than $$$?

It would be interesting to hear if there is anybody else that have seen the NEC and Eizo next to each other like I did. It sounds strange that one of the top stores in NYC would calibrate one monitor wrong? I'm back in Sweden now so I can't go back to the store and see if anything is wrong with his calibration. He did have the same values for both monitors. But off course different software and puck.

[alain]

So is there any reason why I shouldn't buy the Eizo CG275W? For me it's only US $240 more than the NEC since I buy it in Europe. And the NEC SpectraView model is not the same in Europe like the one in the US.

I understand that most of the gurus here have only worked with NEC in recent years. And the reason for that is in the US the Eizo is too expensive? Or is there other reasons than $$$?

It would be interesting to hear if there is anybody else that have seen the NEC and Eizo next to each other like I did. It sounds strange that one of the top stores in NYC would calibrate one monitor wrong? I'm back in Sweden now so I can't go back to the store and see if anything is wrong with his calibration. He did have the same values for both monitors. But off course different software and puck.

NEC has a pixel defect guaranty for 6 months, EIZO charges 200 euro's extra for it ;-) (Which I can't understand BTW, a top screen with pixel defects?))

[Schwenny]

NEC has a pixel defect guaranty for 6 months, EIZO charges 200 euro's extra for it ;-) (Which I can't understand BTW, a top screen with pixel defects?))

Is it common with pixel defects for these kind of high end monitors?

[alain]

Is it common with pixel defects for these kind of high end monitors?

I don't know, but I'm not buying such a good and expensive monitor without pixel guaranty.   I find it very strange that it's not "free", if the monitors are that good and hand calibrated.

As a consumer (not business) inside the EU go there's a 7 or 14 days right to return goods if purchased by mail order (aka online), so this is a way to get pixel guaranty ;-)

BTW. The two 27" models use the same panel.

[elliot_n]

Yes, my Eizo came with a 5 year guarantee, but if you read the small print it excludes just about everything that could wrong with a monitor. (That said, I haven't read of anyone having problems with the Eizo.)

Here's the guy I corresponded with. He had 6 bad NEC monitors in a row, and only found a solution with the Eizo:

http://web.archiveorange.com/archive/v/oeeLHGDEjWkn90ICViRO

[Steve Weldon]

Yes, my Eizo came with a 5 year guarantee, but if you read the small print it excludes just about everything that could wrong with a monitor. (That said, I haven't read of anyone having problems with the Eizo.)

Here's the guy I corresponded with. He had 6 bad NEC monitors in a row, and only found a solution with the Eizo:

http://web.archiveorange.com/archive/v/oeeLHGDEjWkn90ICViRO

Defies all logic..

[elliot_n]

Defies all logic..

What do you mean?

[Farmer]

I can attest to Eizo quality and longevity.  I have 2 myself that are just over 6 years old and still calibrate perfectly and have zero problems.  I use another at work as does a colleague where both of those are also nearly 6 years old.  We have some newer ones as well, ranging from 6 months to 2 years old.  I've never had a problem.

Going back about 5 years a colleague had an old Eizo CRT that was 10 years old and still functioning perfectly.  Quality is a hallmark of Eizo.

[Schwenny]

Yes, my Eizo came with a 5 year guarantee, but if you read the small print it excludes just about everything that could wrong with a monitor. (That said, I haven't read of anyone having problems with the Eizo.)

Here's the guy I corresponded with. He had 6 bad NEC monitors in a row, and only found a solution with the Eizo:

http://web.archiveorange.com/archive/v/oeeLHGDEjWkn90ICViRO

I can see that he had NEC 27" and 30" so maybe it's true then that NEC monitors over 24" aren't even over the full screen. The salesman in NYC said that NEC themselves said that about their monitors. But he also thought that about the Eizo, not to go over 24" monitor... So that's why I'm not so sure if it's smart to get the 27" Eizo. But it seems that you guys are happy with the CG275W.

[Steve Weldon]

What do you mean?

First, the linked posts were very general and doesn't really say if what he saw as a problem, was really a problem or something he wasn't understanding, a procedure issue, etc. 

Second, six bad monitors in a row is hard to believe.  Normally you hear this about lenses from someone who doesn't know how to use them.  I can believe he received six "in specification" monitors but because of reasons related to him not understanding something or not doing something right he thought they were bad.. but most stores would have stepped in far before exchanging six monitors and investigated the issue.   NEC wouldn't send out six replacement monitors consecutively either.  And barring a Fedex guy from tossing six of them over the fence while on video I don't see six breaking in shipment. 

Third, the "only" solution is with Eizo?  Really?  There's an awful lot of professionals on this forum alone, a couple who wrote the book on color management and monitors.. who are using them as a solution.

Usually when you have someone telling you they've had multiple "bad" copies of any type of equipment, its that they don't understand the equipment.  I had a student show up for class telling me his 85/1.2 was defective, and so where the last 5 85/1.2's he tried, sometimes they'd be focused, sometimes not.  Upon further questioning it turns out that "out of principle" he wouldn't buy a second lens from a dealer he received a bad one from, so he'd bought six different lenses from six different resellers, each time returning it for a refund before going to the next reseller.  Well, it turns out he was doing the right thing taking a workshop.  When you leave your 60d in P mode with an 85/1.2 attached some will be in focus and others won't be.  In this case he didn't even understand focus.  What he was talking about was depth of field but he didn't know that.  You'd expect someone buying a 85/1.2 to understand DOF, but when you hear they had six bad copies it might make you think about the odds of something being off with the user rather than a reputable company putting out such a high percentage of defective product that a guy could get six bad ones.  I'm sure it's possible, just not probable.  It defies logic.