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Author Topic: matte / gloss black paradox  (Read 1197 times)

texshooter

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matte / gloss black paradox
« on: January 20, 2012, 01:10:50 am »

ive always been told that matte paper yields duller blacks than glossy paper. when i compare epson hot press bright to harman gloss baryta under indoor ge reveal bulbs (2850K), the epson paper blacks are definitely muted.  but when i view the prints in daytime window light, the epson hotpress bright matte paper far surpasses the baryta paper with deep coal blacks. its not even close.

why is this? i observe the opposite of what everone tells me.  i use the manufacturer icc profiles and epson k3 inks.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2012, 01:19:55 am by texshooter »
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Ernst Dinkla

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Re: matte / gloss black paradox
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2012, 02:59:24 am »

Depending on the viewing light; diffused-specular and the angle of reflection, the impression of the different blacks varies to the eye.
In practice that impression can count more than the measured densities but is highly subjective.
For the spectrometer and densitometer the optical arrangement stays the same all the time. Most have a (round) specular llumination at 45 degrees, measuring at 0 degrees. In that case the density of gloss black will be higher than that of matte black. If they did not use a weak gloss black ink.
 
http://www2.konicaminolta.eu/eu/Measuring/pcc/en/part3/01.html


met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst
Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/
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bill t.

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Re: matte / gloss black paradox
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2012, 04:55:40 am »

A few matte papers are capable of competing with the glossies on contrast and density, and Epson Hot Press is one of them.  But many other matte papers would not be so impressive, although still capable of interpreting images in beautiful ways.

But as Ernst mentions, viewing conditions, light direction, and the softness or hardness of the light has consequences on how the light diffuses on the surface, and matte surfaces show a wider range of diffusion responses than glossy ones.   Those surface effects also subvert accurately photographing art, but that's another story.

Effects like that are why I feel it is a mistake to judge prints only under ideal lighting conditions.  You've got to walk around the studio with your test prints.  Go over to the windows, check the miserable yellow lighting in the bathroom, the D50 fluorescent tube in the kitchen area, the awful institutional fluorescent tubes in the storage room, the nice halogen spots in the hallway.  And if possible check how they look in your favorite art galleries.  And you should see the gorgeous, rich, cool north light on my front porch, I wish I could bottle that stuff.  Your prints will look different in each location, and sometimes a lot different.

« Last Edit: January 20, 2012, 04:58:38 am by bill t. »
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: matte / gloss black paradox
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2012, 07:56:08 am »

The other thing that can impact this is the presence and quantity of OBA.  The Epson Hot Press Bright does have OBAs but I'm not sure about the Harman paper (though I did look at Ernst's database of spectra and it appears that it might).
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Ernst Dinkla

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Re: matte / gloss black paradox
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2012, 09:45:30 am »

OBA content is about the same. If the OBA had an effect one would see a contrast increase due to more reflectance of the paper white, the black should hardly change. That could still lead to the wrong conclusion of having a darker black. Highly subjective I wrote. Then there is my gut feeling that a cooler B&W print having the same measured black density and contrast range as a warmer print could look more contrasty. An OBA difference would create that color tone difference. The Harman is a bit cooler with several lamps and daylight here, the small visual difference with the Epson remains the same though, both in whiteness and brightness.


met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst
330+ paper white spectral plots:
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
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