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Author Topic: 9900-Black Banding on Matte Canvas  (Read 3961 times)

Garnick

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9900-Black Banding on Matte Canvas
« on: January 14, 2012, 02:51:13 pm »

Hello All,

There was a thread about a year ago that dealt with this issue and I am now seeing it in my 9900. I don't often print on Matte Papers with the 9900, but I do use Matte Canvas. If there's an expanse of almost solid black in the image I'm getting rather sever light banding, obviously rendering the print useless. It isn't a nozzle issue, since the nozzle checks before and after the print are clean. I recently created a document approximately 40x20", filled with solid black and printed it on Epson Double Weight Matte Paper. NOT pretty. Obviously Epson hasn't yet solved the problem, so I won't be printing any more canvases larger than the 7600 will handle until I can resolve this issue. I've tried all of the Platen Gap settings and none make any difference. I've also decreased the Paper Feed to -20, with no positive results. Also, if I were to print two large canvases of the same file the banding would show up in different areas. I've had a LOT of issues with the printer and will be renewing the warranty soon, for the second time.  With all of the service calls and replaced parts they would have paid for at least one and a half new 9900s, but this seems to be the way Epson wants to play the game. I'm seriously considering lobbying for a replacement printer before spending another $1300CDN for the warranty. Of course I realize that even if Epson agreed, it would be a refurb unit. Not at all certain I'd want to venture down that road.

If any of you folks have experienced this problem with the 9900, please chime in and perhaps offer some suggestions. Any and all replies will be much appreciated.

Thanks,
Gary   
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Gary N.
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Garnick

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Re: 9900-Black Banding on Matte Canvas
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2012, 11:17:31 am »

Hello All,

There was a thread about a year ago that dealt with this issue and I am now seeing it in my 9900. I don't often print on Matte Papers with the 9900, but I do use Matte Canvas. If there's an expanse of almost solid black in the image I'm getting rather sever light banding, obviously rendering the print useless. It isn't a nozzle issue, since the nozzle checks before and after the print are clean. I recently created a document approximately 40x20", filled with solid black and printed it on Epson Double Weight Matte Paper. NOT pretty. Obviously Epson hasn't yet solved the problem, so I won't be printing any more canvases larger than the 7600 will handle until I can resolve this issue. I've tried all of the Platen Gap settings and none make any difference. I've also decreased the Paper Feed to -20, with no positive results. Also, if I were to print two large canvases of the same file the banding would show up in different areas. I've had a LOT of issues with the printer and will be renewing the warranty soon, for the second time.  With all of the service calls and replaced parts they would have paid for at least one and a half new 9900s, but this seems to be the way Epson wants to play the game. I'm seriously considering lobbying for a replacement printer before spending another $1300CDN for the warranty. Of course I realize that even if Epson agreed, it would be a refurb unit. Not at all certain I'd want to venture down that road.

If any of you folks have experienced this problem with the 9900, please chime in and perhaps offer some suggestions. Any and all replies will be much appreciated.

Thanks,
Gary   

Since this post I've had yet another service call. The fourth cap/cleaning station installed and a new left ink bay(yellow leaking). I also showed the service tech some examples of this banding issue that is totally preventing me from printing with MK on the 9900. He commented that he had never seen this particular issue and I gave him a couple of the ruined prints. He said he would confer with some other techs to try to find a solution. I've also posted this issue on the EpsonWideFormat forum with a number of replies from members experiencing the same problem in various degrees. I believe this is something that Epson is aware of but they haven't been able to fix it either. I'll be the first to admit that I am an Epson junky. Over the years I have owned a 1280(still in use for docs), a 4000(eventually traded for a 7600) and a second 7600 as well(MK & PK), and of course the 9900. I can say with no reservation that the list of problems with the 9900 have by far outweighed those of the the other 4 Epson printers combined. Now this MK banding problem has totally put a stop to printing with MK on the 9900. I still use the MK7600 for canvas and Fine Art papers, but anything larger I have to turn away. That was of course one of the reasons for purchasing the 9900, but it simply does NOT work. I've every variation/combination of settings, both in the driver and on the control panel with no success. Very frustrating, time consuming and costly. I think I'll be sending Epson my "9900 Issues Log" that I started shortly after taking possession of the machine. Of course they already have their own log of the various service calls associated with this printer. It has also been suggested that I should lobby for a new printer, but considering that it would likely be a refurb, that idea is not at all appealing. My first warranty extension will expire in a couple of months so I'll be extending it for the second and last time. Perhaps lobbying for this extension on Epson's tab would be a possibility. Both the service tech and I agreed that with all of the service calls and parts involved so far it would total the cost of at least one new machine. Seems to be a combination of bad economy and customer relations on Epson's part, but of course that's just my opinion. I'll be doing a bit more testing in a few days and then calling Epson "AGAIN" to arrange another service call for this issue. As always, any replies or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Gary     





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Gary N.
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bill t.

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Re: 9900-Black Banding on Matte Canvas
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2012, 06:56:52 pm »

FWIW about a year ago I saw noticeable banding in very dark areas on some rolls of a third party matte canvas, not Epson.  It was in the direction of printing so I was absolutely convinced it was an issue with the printer.  Turns out it was a manufacturing issue with the canvas, all subsequent rolls have been fine.  I assume you have probably tried a few different rolls, but if not it might be worth trying a roll of some other canvas to see what happens.
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Garnick

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Re: 9900-Black Banding on Matte Canvas
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2012, 11:03:35 pm »

FWIW about a year ago I saw noticeable banding in very dark areas on some rolls of a third party matte canvas, not Epson.  It was in the direction of printing so I was absolutely convinced it was an issue with the printer.  Turns out it was a manufacturing issue with the canvas, all subsequent rolls have been fine.  I assume you have probably tried a few different rolls, but if not it might be worth trying a roll of some other canvas to see what happens.

Hi Bill,

I'm using Breathing Color canvas and so far I've tested on 17", 24", 36" and 44", all with the same results.  I also did some solid back on 24" roll Enhanced Matte and again the same issue.  Thus, I'm pretty sure it is indeed a printer problem.  I really do wish it were as simple as a product defect, but I'm afraid it goes far beyond that.  Looks like I'll be getting in touch with Epson again sometime this week.  Perhaps they will eventually give up and give in to the fact that I have a defective printer.  Or perhaps it is something that can be remedied.  Either way I desperately need this issue addressed immediately, since I can no longer take canvas work for this printer. 

Thanks for the reply Bill.
Gary
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Gary N.
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bill t.

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Re: 9900-Black Banding on Matte Canvas
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2012, 12:57:40 am »

Best of luck Gary!

It's hard to even construct a theory of how that could be made to happen deliberately.  Maybe there's a factory data table in the firmware that's trying to proportion inkflow against lateral head position to compensate for manufacturing variations, and it's wrong or was never even calibrated.  Who knows.  OK, my old electromechanical instincts are asserting themselves and I can't resist this...have you ever put your hand on the printer while printing?  Any rhythmic or irregular vibrations?  How about warble in motor tone?  Those darned servo systems can oscillate when the mechanical load changes from what it was during tuning.  Used to do that kind of stuff.  Had to ask.

Those kinds of things are kinda scary for us little guys.  I'm barely a month from a big art fair, and if my printer got weird now I'd be in a world of hurt.
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ashwee5185

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Re: 9900-Black Banding on Matte Canvas
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2012, 05:09:33 pm »

I have heard of this problem. I know 3 seperate people having this issue on the 9900. On matte black in areas of solid color (usually black) there would be a striping almost banding effect. One colleague called it a 'disoriented' printhead. He and my other friend fixed their printers by getting the motherboard replaced. In the woman's case after the motherboard was replaced the problem was almost completely eliminated. The service guy says of I guess we could try replacing the printhead-- but he did not offer it up straight away. She stood her ground and the tech finally decided to replace the printhead as well. Once both were replaced the printer was as good as new.

But I know in both cases it took alot to get the Epson techs to finally admit there was a problem and actually fix it. The woman had countless calls to epson and 3 visits from a tech. The gentleman played it tough and insisted they fix it. The third I never heard back about what happened-- but the problem was identical.
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Garnick

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Re: 9900-Black Banding on Matte Canvas
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2012, 02:16:58 pm »

In my last post I stated that the service call was to address the replacement of the left ink bay and bring the issue of the MK banding to the attention of the service tech.  Both problems were addressed and I'll deal with the left ink bay replacement first.  That was due to a leaky ink bay connection to the Yellow cart, as was obvious when the original bay was removed.  That procedure went well and then I showed the tech some examples of the MK banding issue.  He said he had never seen that sort of banding but would take a couple of samples to show to other techs at Decision One here in Canada.  The next day I called Epson to introduce the MK banding issue and set up another service call for that as well.  During that phone call I eventually spoke to a supervisor and voiced my displeasure concerning the ever growing list of issues with this printer.  I was told that nothing more could be done until the next service call had been attended to and then perhaps we could talk about the extended warranty and some sort of compensation. 

The latest service call was two days ago(Friday Feb.3) and was relegated to the MK banding problem.  The tech ran a variety of test patterns from his laptop and I then gave him one of my "black only" test files to print on Enhanced Matte paper.  It looked slightly better than what I had printed the previous day, so he then printed the same file, again from his laptop, on the Breathing Color Matte Canvas.  There was no sign of banding, which initiated more questions on my part.  I asked to see all of the driver settings to print the test and to my surprise the Platen Gap was set to "Standard".  With all of the tests I had printed using a combination of settings, trying to eliminate the MK banding, the one setting that remained constant was the PG setting - "Wider".  The information sheet from Breathing Color for this canvas stipulates a setting of "Widest", however, with my driver "Wider" is as wide as it gets.  Therefore I was very reluctant to try the "Standard" or "Auto" settings, fearing a head strike and more issues.  I wanted to confer with the tech before changing the PG setting, but as it turned out he beat me to the finish line by leaving all of his settings as default before printing the canvas test.  It would seem that most, if not all of the MK banding problem had been caused by a PG setting that was simply too wide for this combination of printer and canvas.  I was still somewhat reluctant to try this with my setup, but I did so while the tech was present to make sure he could see what was happening in case of another related problem.  My tests were perfect with the "Auto" PG setting, so I then proceeded to build that into the canvas preset in the driver.  I have since noticed that Dano from Epson has mentioned the "Auto" PG setting for the Epson Exhibition Canvas as well, so perhaps that is quite normal. 

Although I haven't yet done any more testing on Fine Art papers it would seem that I can now print with confidence on the Breathing Color Canvas.  I will however be keeping a careful eye on the possibility of further banding issues and head strikes.  I would also appreciate any replies as to the PG settings used for BC Chomata White canvas by those of you printing on the 9900.

Also, a followup on the left ink bay replacement.  Since the new bay was installed I have experienced air bubbles in all but one of the ink lines from that bay, some as long as 5.5".  I kept a careful eye on the situation and was able to print as usual until the "bubble" reached the print head.  In most cases a "Power Pairs Cleaning" followed by a "Normal Pairs Cleaning" was enough to move the the bubble through the head and replace it with ink.  Except for the wasted ink involved with this procedure it has so far been a rather easy fix for the inline air problem.  I'll probably be approaching Epson for a couple more ink carts to compensate for that used to purge the air from the lines.

Your replies concerning Platen Gap settings for canvas printing with the 9900 would be greatly appreciated.

Gary         
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Gary N.
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Ken Doo

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Re: 9900-Black Banding on Matte Canvas
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2012, 02:52:04 pm »

Gary,

While not related to printing on canvas, I have experienced mild horizontal banding using Pk on Hahn's Photorag Baryta, using their profile, on my 9900.  I thought it must be a nozzle check, but that was clear.  And similar to your experience, I do believe it was a related platen gap issue.  I increased print quality, adjusted feed, and returned the platen gap to auto.  No more banding.  I'm resigned to the fact that my new 9900 is more finicky and requires a bit more attention to detail than my 9800, which just seemed so simple and reliable.  I've started keeping a printer notebook to help me keep organized (9900) on printer profiles, settings, maintenance tips and issues.

ken

Garnick

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Re: 9900-Black Banding on Matte Canvas
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2012, 03:34:38 pm »

Gary,

I increased print quality, adjusted feed, and returned the platen gap to auto.  No more banding.  I'm resigned to the fact that my new 9900 is more finicky and requires a bit more attention to detail than my 9800, which just seemed so simple and reliable.  I've started keeping a printer notebook to help me keep organized (9900) on printer profiles, settings, maintenance tips and issues.

ken

Hi Ken,

My "9900 Issue Log" was started before I took possession of the printer, due to some problems I'd been following on this and another forum.  It now has 95 entries and is growing, so in my opinion, "finicky" is a rather understated description.  I am curious to know if you initiated all of the above settings changes at once, or one at a time.  It's my opinion that perhaps the platen gap setting was the main culprit and that you could have left the other 2 settings as they were.  It's usually a good idea to try one change at a time so that you'll know which one was successful.  Just a thought.  I'm glad it's working for you Ken.

Gary 
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Don Libby

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Re: 9900-Black Banding on Matte Canvas
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2012, 09:37:40 pm »

Gary,

The only time I've had a problem printing was the very first print I did.  That first print was Breathing Colors Lyve and I thought I had all the settings done correctly.  While I didn't experience any banding on the print I did experience a wiping effect due to the print head smearing a portion of the image.  Turned out I had the Platen Gap set to "Wide".  I switched the gap to "Wider" and no problems.  I actually took the time to read the label on the box and found where it said to set the gap to wider.

Not sure if it helps, although I know it hasn't hurt any, I set the paper settings to "Roll Paper (Banner)" as suggested by BC.

Like Ken, I've started a print recipe booklet that I'm using to triple-check my settings.

To date that's the only user error I can attribute a failure to; the other was a cartridge failing to resister 2-days after I had installed it.  Talk about a that sinking feeling of having a 400 pound boat anchor!  Fortunately I got a new one overnight to me.

Don   

vjbelle

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Re: 9900-Black Banding on Matte Canvas
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2012, 01:33:40 pm »

Gary,

I have a 9900 and also print on Lyve.  I have never had the issue you are experiencing and have tried various platen settings.  I have taken the position that if set to 'auto' the platen would adjust to the 'media' type thickness.  BC recommends Water Color media..... I don't know the thickness of that media but assume its similar to Lyve canvas.  Again I have no issues, at least so far.

Victor
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