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Author Topic: Fujifilm and Medium Format  (Read 5114 times)

markymarkrb

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Fujifilm and Medium Format
« on: January 10, 2012, 03:11:51 pm »

I am just looking for some oppinions so I have one more random question.  Lately I have been thinking about Fuji's potential if they got into the medium format market.  The GX617 was an awesome camera and I hear a lot of people talk about the Fuji GX680III as an awesome camera.  Does anyone think that Fujifilm could again enter the medium format market with a digital camera?  I know that they have a lot going for them with the organic sensor that they claim to have and the XPRO1 is a step higher on the ladder for them but where do you think they will stop?

Mark
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theguywitha645d

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Re: Fujifilm and Medium Format
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2012, 03:19:45 pm »

Fuji is one of the hardest camera companies to predict except for the fact they are unpredictable. Pentax certainly were able to enter the field, but the existing lenses in the system, at least in Japan, made it feasible. Mamiya tried it. So it is not beyond the realm of possibility that Fuji could make the jump.

The cost for developing a system from ground up would be very great. Could they make a system based on the GX680, possibly, but it is not ideal.
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photo570

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Re: Fujifilm and Medium Format
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2012, 03:25:01 pm »

Fuji is one of the hardest camera companies to predict except for the fact they are unpredictable. Pentax certainly were able to enter the field, but the existing lenses in the system, at least in Japan, made it feasible. Mamiya tried it. So it is not beyond the realm of possibility that Fuji could make the jump.

The cost for developing a system from ground up would be very great. Could they make a system based on the GX680, possibly, but it is not ideal.

I would literally sell my grandmother for a digital GX680, I used to use mine every day, it is in Japan getting repaired at the moment, so I am roughing it with my H, I really miss lens movements.  :-(

Jason.
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Jason Berge
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fotometria gr

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Re: Fujifilm and Medium Format
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2012, 04:49:56 pm »

I am just looking for some oppinions so I have one more random question.  Lately I have been thinking about Fuji's potential if they got into the medium format market.  The GX617 was an awesome camera and I hear a lot of people talk about the Fuji GX680III as an awesome camera.  Does anyone think that Fujifilm could again enter the medium format market with a digital camera?  I know that they have a lot going for them with the organic sensor that they claim to have and the XPRO1 is a step higher on the ladder for them but where do you think they will stop?

Mark
But they are in the MF market Mark! They make the Hasselblad H and lenses in their factory and in Japan the system (both camera and lenses) is sold with the Fujifilm brand on it! Since it is highly rumored that they have a good part of shares in Hasselblad, it looks like they will continue hand in hand with Hass. Regards, Theodoros. www.fotometria.gr
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markymarkrb

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Re: Fujifilm and Medium Format
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2012, 05:18:01 pm »

That is a good point.  I knew that they made the H lenses but was unaware about the camera bodies.
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fotometria gr

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Re: Fujifilm and Medium Format
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2012, 05:41:36 pm »

David Grover will most likely chime in to correct your statement. I don't remember the specifics but while Fuji is involved in the making of the glass, Hasselblad makes the H bodies and lenses in Sweden.

I believe you are not correct on this, I've some friends that use earlier H1 & one that uses H2, all their cameras and lenses clearly state "made in Japan" on them. Regards Theodoros. www.fotometria.gr
 P.S. (for Mark) I also use a GX680 for 2 months now, alongside my Contax645 with which It shares my MFDB. I replaced my Sinar P2 for studio use and guess what, ....I am in love again!
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fotometria gr

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Re: Fujifilm and Medium Format
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2012, 06:15:48 pm »

I don't get info from "friend's cameras." David is the Hassy rep who has posted here for years. Whenever someone makes the comment that Fuji manufactures the H system, he goes crazy with facts stating the contrary. Sorry. You're welcome to PM him for the specifics.

I don't think anything has change in the construction of the H system from the H2 until now, it may have, but it seems unlike. I don't believe that David ever said that H cameras are assembled in Sweden, he has said that parts of them are and then shipped in Japan and also said that much of the glass elements is also made in Sweden, but he never denied that the final construction/assembly is made in Japan. After all the Imacon (now Hasselblad) part of the company is in Denmark (including the VERY HELPFUL Hasselblad support dpt.) and I believe they are responsible for the "back" (as integrated part of the system). Regards, Theodoros. www.fotometria.gr
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photo570

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Re: Fujifilm and Medium Format
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2012, 06:18:52 pm »

I don't get info from "friend's cameras." David is the Hassy rep who has posted here for years. Whenever someone makes the comment that Fuji manufactures the H system, he goes crazy with facts stating the contrary. Sorry. You're welcome to PM him for the specifics.


It is both actually. I just went and looked on my gear

H1 body: Made in Sweden
50-110mm Lens: Made in Japan
80mm Lens: Made in Japan
V90x: Made in Japan

Not that it matters, as Fuji make great lenses, I love both the H lenses and all my GX680 lenses.

Cheers,
Jason.
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Jason Berge
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andyptak

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Re: Fujifilm and Medium Format
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2012, 08:46:31 pm »

To answer the original question- I have a GX680III with a P25 back, as do many others, I think. The whole kit wasn't that expensive, except for that damn adaptor plate, and I see a Chinese company is now selling them for about a tenth of the price.

I'm trying to figure out how to adapt a GX617 to a digital back. It should be possible, I just don't know of anyone who's done it and everyone I've asked had poo-pood the idea. Doesn't sound that nuts to me though. If you can put a digital back on a 4X5 or an 8X10, why not a MF pano?
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Fujifilm and Medium Format
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2012, 11:02:14 pm »

It is both actually. I just went and looked on my gear

H1 body: Made in Sweden
50-110mm Lens: Made in Japan
80mm Lens: Made in Japan
V90x: Made in Japan

Correct: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasselblad#H1

My H1 was also made in Sweden.

Cheers,
Bernard

Kumar

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Re: Fujifilm and Medium Format
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2012, 12:59:34 am »

Fuji did have something in the works: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/new/pma-2003.shtml

Kumar
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jeremypayne

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Re: Fujifilm and Medium Format
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2012, 06:33:17 am »

Since it is highly rumored that they have a good part of shares in Hasselblad ...

Wrong (again).  You must have heard that from the same people who told you about the "linearization" of RAW data.

"Ventizz Capital Fund IV L.P. acquired 100 percent of Hasselblad in June 2011."

http://www.ventizz.de/en/Hasselblad.php
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DennisWilliams

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Re: Fujifilm and Medium Format
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2012, 11:50:35 pm »

I'd easily pay triple the price of an X Pro 1 proportionately sized up to accommodate a 36mm X 48mm (or larger) new Fuji sensor.  Same styling  but no video or special abilities required like 12800 ISO, more than a couple frames per second or face recognition.  I can recognize faces just fine thank you, even remember where I was when I took the image (skip GPS)  and even focus for myself if need be. No folding tray LCD screen either.

Fuji may not sell tens of millions but I'd bet at least as many units as the new folding 67 and they OK'd that.  There must be profit in specialized products and there are certainly people out there who would enjoy digital capabilities within a retro MF package- and can afford the price. 6000$USD for the body and 950$USD each for 35, 70 and 100mm 2.8 prime lenses.
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ondebanks

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Re: Fujifilm and Medium Format
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2012, 10:02:55 am »

I'd easily pay triple the price of an X Pro 1 proportionately sized up to accommodate a 36mm X 48mm (or larger) new Fuji sensor.  Same styling  but no video or special abilities required like 12800 ISO, more than a couple frames per second or face recognition.  I can recognize faces just fine thank you, even remember where I was when I took the image (skip GPS)  and even focus for myself if need be. No folding tray LCD screen either.

6000$USD for the body and 950$USD each for 35, 70 and 100mm 2.8 prime lenses.

A lot of what makes the X-Pro1 what it is, is the CMOS sensor. Even if you strip away high ISO & video & 6 fps shooting, you can't have a useable hybrid/electronic viewfinder without the fast readout of CMOS.

So if you want a "36mm X 48mm (or larger)" version, we're back to the age-old question - why are there still no medium-format sized CMOS backs/cameras? And the answers always come back: it's about semiconductor fab processes, steppers and stitching. Fuji would first have to crack that - but if they do, they will have the potential to revolutionize and own a very large segment of the MF digital industry (supplying sensors to the back makers, if nothing else); and I'll be celebrating like a maniac.

BTW, I love two things about this X-Pro1 sensor:

1) What they've done with the new, more random 6x6 Bayer array; they claim there's no moire even without an AA filter. Very clever; kudos to Fuji.
 
2) It's suitable for deep-sky astrophotography, straight out of the box!  :D  It actually transmits a decent amount of H-alpha 656 nm (the red colour of nebulae)...which is even more remarkable when you consider that the ratio of red to green pixels is down by 20% compared to a "normal" RGGB array. I was gobsmacked to see an example of a tracked deep-sky photo which shows this, in the Fuji sample pics: http://www.fujifilm.com/products/digital_cameras/x/fujifilm_x_pro1/sample_images/img/index/ff_x_pro1_001.JPG. They actually bloody care about astrophotographers enough to use this as a selling point! (The 18mm f/2 wideangle however has pretty strong off-axis aberrations, at the f3.6 stop this shot was taken at; and it's been oversharpened too. But I'm sure the other lenses are better, and I'm sure an adapter industry will spring up for the X mount).

6000$USD for the body and 950$USD each for 35, 70 and 100mm 2.8 prime lenses.

A brand new, fast 35/2.8 medium format wideangle for $950? As much as we'd all love it, I can't see that ever happening. $1950 at best, if the Mamiya 45/2.8 "D" is a guide; and let's not even think of using the Leica S2 35/2.5 (north of $7950) as a guide!  ;)

Ray
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Stefan.Steib

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Re: Fujifilm and Medium Format
« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2012, 11:13:29 am »

Ray

There were rumours that the new Fuji Organic CMOS´s will be also used for the new leica S(whatever) and the M(whatever) this year.
A fullformat M"10" could be at around 32 Mpix (with the pixel pitch of the X1Pro) and an S"3" with about 50% more size would be 48 Mpix.

The posted Images on    http://www.fujifilm.com/products/digital_cameras/x/fujifilm_x_pro1/sample_images/    are pretty good, filewise, the channels are very clean, this sensor seems to be top notch.
I am not so much convinced about the lenses the images  look all pretty unsharp and with flare on the borders -exception this one (whereas there is no sharp detail on the borders here- so hard to say):

http://www.fujifilm.com/products/digital_cameras/x/fujifilm_x_pro1/sample_images/img/index/ff_x_pro1_007.JPG

Anyway, putting Leica S lenses on it or Leica M glass should fix it and then I would say: WOW !

Greetings from Munich
Stefan
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