Color MGT in CS3 on Mac OS X 6.8 (Snow Leopard) Epson 7800 Printer Test Chart

[SW]

Please forgive me if what I ask is inappropriate, particularly because I am so behind the times in regards to discovering I had a problem and then in regards to trying to solve the thing. Also, I've never posted to a forum before and don't know the ins and outs.

I'm trying to create newer custom paper profiles with i1 Photo (xrite) on a Mac Pro using OS X 6.8 in CS3 with my Epson 7800 printer using Epson Driver 8.64. LaCie 22 CRT monitor.

I've read the excellent article by Mark Dubovoy titled "Solving Recent Profiling Issues with Apple Computers Epson Printers and Photoshop",  and I have downloaded the "Adobe Color Printer Utility" (ACPU) and placed it in my Applications.

When I try to use the ACPU from the desktop or from Applications, I receive the error message "-30879". Then I get another message, " Adobe Color Printer Utility quit unexpectantly. A detailed report is being sent to Apple." Could someone advise me on this point?

In the Dubovoy article, a long hand work around that would allow one to run a target chart with No Color MGT. (in my case from the i1) has not been tried because I don't know how to get the i1 Gretag color checker target chart into Photoshop. Could someone please advise me on this point?

Support entities I've called and sent emails to include Apple, Xrite and Epson. (No Adobe support for CS3) All have been contacted via phone or email more than once. All tell me nothing is wrong with their products, that they have never heard of a problem with being unable to print target/test charts with "No Color MGT" selected and to call the other guys.   

The Epson net site gave instructions to change printer settings but that would require changing settings for each image printed, and would require many more test prints - image by image.

The Apple Store gave me the name of an Apple Consultant. I called him and he told me to look into using the Color Burst Over Drive rip software and to contact all of the aforementioned support entities again to find out how to print target charts with No Color MGT selected. I Called the supports again - same kind of answers and no solutions. Went to the Color Burst site and their software requires one to use "No Color MGT." The consultant said he could only help me (for $95.00 per hour) I can truly use "No Color MGT" to print the target test chart, otherwise it wasn't worth his fee to come to my place.

I'm sorry to have bothered you with such an old community problem. I'll gladly consider any and all advise you may be able to share with me.
I'm stuck, SW.

[Schewe]

Mark's article refers to Photoshop CS5, not CS3. You should still be able to print targets correctly from CS3 without having to resort to using the Adobe Printer Utility. The other option would be to print the targets from the color management app. You say i1 Photo but don't indicate what CM app you are using?

[SW]

Schewe, thank you so much for your response and for your question. I'm not a techie so could you define "CM" for me so I can answer?
SW

[SW]

If CM mean color mgt. then in the print dialogue box I use "Photoshop Manages Color."
SW

[Schewe]

By CM app I meant what color management app are you using? Eye-One Match?

[SW]

What is Eye One Match? I have never seen this in ANYTHING on my system.

I am so embarrassed that I even posted to the forum, but I appreciate your attempts to help me.
SW

[pfigen]

CS3 is basically unusable in Snow Leopard. There is a dark print bug that manifests itself in CS3 in Snow Leopard. While you can print your target from CS3 and run a profile from that target, your profile will only be valid printing from CS3. If you print with that profile through CS3, you will then get lighter than normal prints.

Your best overall bet is to print through the Adobe Color Print Utility for you target and then print through CS5, and if you don't have CS5, you might as well upgrade to that while you still can. Not sure why you can't use the ACPU successfully, as it works fine for my and every person I know on Snow Leopard.

And on top of that, if you try and use i1Profiler profiles in CS3 and Snow Leopard, you get prints that are about ten stops dark, so things are still majorly screwed up, or at least can be if you choose the wrong combination of applications. It's been about a month since I sent X-Rite documentation regarding the CS3 bug, and have heard nothing back. A very weird bug that shows up in the C2P dialog as well.

[digitaldog]

What is Eye One Match? I have never seen this in ANYTHING on my system.

The X-Rite software you’re using should (if memory serves, been a long time) allow you to print the targets directly from the app. Do that.

[SW]

Thank you Schewe, Pfigen and Digital Dog.
Digital Dog, yes you remember correctly. Printing the test chart directly from i! is what I did last week. Eye balling the charts and comparing the older charts with the newer charts indicated a difference between the two charts. The profiles from the newer target charts where the worst profiles I have ever generated. That's what started my search for answers. I believe your site was where I learned that there was an issue, about the ACPU and that maybe it wasn't a problem that I generated.

Pfigen, I'll try to download the ACPU again, and try again. If I can get it to print I'll then upgrade to CS5 and print targets from the ACPU. But I really don't want to go to CS5 because of all the third party Nik Software plug in's I'll also have to upgrade. Hope Helicon Focus will work in CS5. Also, from what I've read, there are problems with CS5.

Should I upgrade to Lion along with upgrading to CS5?
This will be a very long week end. Ugh. SW

[digitaldog]

Double (triple) check the print settings from within the X-Rite product. Should work correctly. On OS X, be careful what is selected in Color Matching area of the print driver. Should be the ColorSync radio button on.

[SW]

Thank you Digital Dog. You gave me hope this morning!
 
I did exactly what you suggested directly from within the i1 application, i.e. turned Color Matching to "Color Sync". Ran three charts of each paper to make sure there was consistency. Also, for the heck of it, I ran one test chart with Color Matching tuned back to "Epson Control Colors" for each paper.

Ran profiles from each chart for each paper.

Ran two images, previously processed, using the aforementioned profiles. In addition, I ran the same two images using profiles generated from previous test target charts and profiles dated 4/2010 and 10/2010. Additionally, I ran the same images using Epson's canned profiles for the PGPP 250.

There were big differences in the appearance of the target charts, and in the prints, generated from the profiles from those charts.

My custom profile dated 10/2010 (for PGPP 250) and Epson's PGPP 250 profile won out big time. No comparison to ANY of the other additional profiles previously mentioned.

I ran the i1 Diagnostic tests. It took over three hours because it just kept repeating it's self. The tests indicated the i1 was passing the tests. The test results ended when I force quit i1 Diagnostics. I was not given options to print, save or export the results to send to anyone.

There were NO printing problems with my OS Tiger, which got fried. The necessary upgrade to OS Leopard ( approx. 7/08) was "ok", no major problems but definitely more difficult. When the OS Leopard had to be replaced (because it broke down) by Snow Leopard - all h--k broke loss. (Unfortunately, I don't know exactly when I had to change to Snow Leopard because I didn't save the paper work.)

Even though your suggestion failed l am grateful  for your help!

If you, Schewe,  PFengen, and anyone else wants to jump into help, I'll be equally grateful.

Your know, seems like Apple's changes have REALLY mucked up the works even though the masses are in love with the " i(....) fun stuff.
Gratefully, SW

[digitaldog]

I ran the i1 Diagnostic tests. It took over three hours because it just kept repeating it's self. The tests indicated the i1 was passing the tests. The test results ended when I force quit i1 Diagnostics. I was not given options to print, save or export the results to send to anyone.

Sounds odd. Been awhile since I ran the utility but I don’t recall it behaving this way.

[SW]

Sp did Ido force quite too soon  or  what do you think is the problem?
SW

[Doyle Yoder]

First off some things need clarified.

What do you mean by  "i1 Photo (xrite)"? Is it this? http://blog.xritephoto.com/?p=2878
If so is it version 1.2.0

I know you are using PSCS3, but that was the worst mess of CM printing I can remember. I would not be surprised that it would be quite problematic with the latest OS versions. It seemed to be a transitional CM implication based on where Apple was planing on going. Most of us here have fought that battle and wouldn't go back to PSCS3 at any cost. You would have better luck with PSCS2 which used Apple old printing path. What printing path PSCS3 uses would be anybody's guess and could vary depending on OS version, printer driver version, ICC version, etc.

Printing targets form i1Profiler version 1.2.0 and the ACPU should give you identical results. When printing from both of these apps in you printer driver setting under Color Matching it should be defaulted to Colorsync and grayed out, which should result in no CM applied in the driver. When printing from CS3 with No Color Management set in the print dialog you need to choose Epson Color Controls under Color Matching in the driver. Then you need to set Color Management Off in the driver. If your getting a different default under Color Matching then CS3 is trying to use Apple's new printing path. Again it is hard to say what is happen in the printer driver and OS when sending a print job from PSCS3.

[madmanchan]

CS3 doesn't support the new print architecture in Snow Leopard (CS3 was released before SL.)

[SW]

Thank you for the link to i1, in the interest of clarity.
To answer your question, NOT Quit. What I have was put out by Gretag Macbeth. It was called Eye One Photo. When I bought the system it was supposed to have been able to calibrate cameras as well as monitors and printers. The camera calibration part of the system hadn't quit been worked out yet, but was promised to follow. Gretag then sold out to Xrite and the camera calibration potential was never completed by Gretag. What your link indicated was xrite's release of the same type of system but with the ability to profile cameras, and to test the working quality of the monitor. 

Thank you for your info re CS3 and Snow Leopard, even though I dread what is ahead of me.

If I am going to be forced to upgrade to CS5, would it be to my benefit to upgrade to Lion and the i1 Profiler by xrite  at the same time? What printing problems am I likely to encounter if I do the dual upgrades besides having to upgrade all my Nik software plug ins and Helicon Focus? From what I've read there could still be many bumps ahead from the upgrades.

Thank you for your generosity.

[SW]

Thank you for your response. Any warnings  you could share with me and other readers of this thread in regards to upgrades?

[pfigen]

SW - You should upgrade to CS5 now while you can for the simple reason of Adobe's new upgrade policies that say you can only get upgrade pricing from the latest version of the software. If you're using a standalone version, that will save you a couple hundred bucks over having to buy the full version when CS6 is released. You can do your own math for the Suite pricing.

Upgrading to Lion has to be considered extremely carefully. Most people I know are NOT doing it, me included, because of too many legacy programs that need Rosetta to run. If you have older apps that you need, you need to find new solutions for them before upgrading, or you'll be sorely disappointed when you can't run them in Lion. You need to be aware of the law of unintended consequences before proceeding into the Lion's den.

[Doyle Yoder]

Thank you for the link to i1, in the interest of clarity.
To answer your question, NOT Quit. What I have was put out by Gretag Macbeth. It was called Eye One Photo. When I bought the system it was supposed to have been able to calibrate cameras as well as monitors and printers. The camera calibration part of the system hadn't quit been worked out yet, but was promised to follow. Gretag then sold out to Xrite and the camera calibration potential was never completed by Gretag. What your link indicated was xrite's release of the same type of system but with the ability to profile cameras, and to test the working quality of the monitor. 

If you stay with 10.6.8 you should be able to create profiles (although somewhat limited compared to i1Profiler) with Eye One Photo. It prints using Apple's old path so you need to choose Epson Color Controls under Color Matching in the driver and then you need to set Color Management Off in the driver. You can always upgrade to i1Profiler if you find Eye One Photo is not up to the job.

I would forget trying to print from CS3.

[SW]

I like your wisdom. From what I've read, Lions are to be kept at a distance.

Will I be better able to successfully run and print from CS5 on Snow Leopard. Is there a likelihood that I'll have problems using my Wacom tablet with CS5? (Just another concern.)