get a laminator or outsource?

[mstevensphoto]

Hi everyone. My small prints (5x7's and 8x10's) are sold as "mounted prints" largely because I think it feels more like you got something nice and my clients really respond well to them. I currently outsource those prints and it's a bigger chunk out of the bottom line. I thought I'd explore an approx 24" laminator for the other things I could do with it and see that the Daige offerings are a chunk of change but there are a lot of less expensive ones. I don't do a ton of these but would like to do more, I'm wondering if adding the time, supplies, machine and space I need for another gizmo is really a better exchange than paying $5-8ea for mounted 5x7's and 8x10's? Will one of the $300-400 options be any good for occasional use?
thanks!
Mark

[dgberg]

Have you looked at the smaller Drytac manual unit. Always seems to be one or two on Ebay.
It is so nice to be able to do everything in house when possible.
Not sure if I would even use a laminator for those small sizes. Adhesive backed foamboard,stick your print to it,turn over and trim with a razor.
What substrate is this company using?

[mstevensphoto]

I get them done at Miller's lab and am not sure what they're using, it is the thickness of matboard but has a much slicker feel. my preference is for something like matboard, I don't like the foamboard edges.

[Michael H. Cothran]

I've been selling laminated images at juried art & craft shows for over 15 years, with good success. I've used equipment and supplies this entire time from Coda, Inc. Here's a link to the machine I own -

http://www.codamount.com/coldmount.htm

They have offices on both East and West coasts.
Coda makes several models. I own the 34" Table top cold-mount motorized laminator. They do make a 26", but I would strongly recommend going with the 34", as it gives lots of room. I only laminate up to 24" wide, which is perfect for the 34". Another reason for this size rather than the 26", is that the laminate comes in 54" width only. Coda will cut it in half for you (free), yielding two rolls of 27". Too big for the 26" model, but ideal for the 34".
They offer a variety of laminate textures. I prefer the matte finish, as it has no glare at all.

I also purchase all my mounting boards from them. Check out their Stand Outs, Mural Mounts, .080" black Styrene, and 3/16" Gatorfoam. These make wonderful frameless boards. The Styrene and Gatorfoam are also great for small prints.

I'll be glad to answer any questions about them for you. As I stated, I've been a satisfied customer since the mid 1990's, and have used many of their products over the years.

Also  - check out their "short cut" straight edges. I bought the 40" version, and it is the best straight edge cutter I've ever used. A nice feature is the hand guard, which keeps your hand & fingers safe should the knife slip.

Good Luck.

[LenR]

Outsource.

[mstevensphoto]

that drytac looks like a breeze and is sure the right price. are you using one?

[bill t.]

Without question Coda makes the best laminators.  Large diameter, long lasting rollers.  Smooth, high quality crank mechanisms.  Last forever.  And very expensive.

Now that the holiday crush over I have been working to make my production pipeline more efficient.  Have had great results with this cheap-as-dirt roller system for applying canvas to glue coated Gatorfoam.  I will probably go ahead and buy the 51" version.  Small diameter rollers, roller lifespan is an unknown, etc, but totally up to the task for now.  Have never tried it with laminating materials.  I notice that for less than $100 you can get what looks like the same machine on Amazon.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/370519627115?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

There's a video that shows it in use.

On thing, however, is that for applying laminating film you really, really need a good way to hold and preferably slightly tension the roll with the film on it.  That's something the little roller systems don't usually offer, you have to work with cut laminating sheets, or cobble a feed system together yourself, or use substrates with pre-applied film (which you can make yourself if needed...but only if you have a roll feed!).  Also, laminating large pieces on a manual roller is best done by two people.  If you've got to laminate big pieces by yourself, you really need a motorized feed.

[Michael H. Cothran]

Without question Coda makes the best laminators. 

On thing, however, is that for applying laminating film you really, really need a good way to hold and preferably slightly tension the roll with the film on it.  That's something the little roller systems don't usually offer, you have to work with cut laminating sheets, or cobble a feed system together yourself, or use substrates with pre-applied film (which you can make yourself if needed...but only if you have a roll feed!).  Also, laminating large pieces on a manual roller is best done by two people.  If you've got to laminate big pieces by yourself, you really need a motorized feed.

Coda offers an optional laminate holder, which positions the roll of laminate over the machine for easy feeding. The machine also has separate height and tension controls on each side, plus various speed feeding, with written instructions for how much to set each for what you are doing. Laminating takes more pressure than mounting, plus the feeding speed needs to be very slow for laminating. Note there's also safety features, including an instant stop if something approaches the rollers. Personally, I have found it easier to cut the length of the laminate (a few inches longer than the print), tack the laminate to the end of the feeding sheet, turn on the machine (either by hand, or with the also optional foot control), and then handhold the release paper of the laminate as it rolls onto the print. Much easier done than said. Coda recommends, and which I adhere to, using a sheet of 3/16" Gatorfoam as your baseboard or feeding board. The laminate will not stick to the release paper of the feeding board, so when the job is finished, it is easily removed. Like anything new, there is a learning curve at first, requiring a little practice. I feel my unit has paid for itself many times over in cost savings from having to farm out laminating and mounting.

[dgberg]

that drytac looks like a breeze and is sure the right price. are you using one?

No Drytack although I looked pretty closely at them.
I purchased both my Seal laminators on Ebay.
A 43" hot roll machine and the larger 62" is a cold roll machine with heat assist.
The hot roll machine enables me to over laminate my canvas with Print Guard Luster.
The most cost effective way would be to outsource.
If you go with one of the Coda or Drytack manual units it is a great way to get in to laminating without the big outlay.

[mstevensphoto]

wow, that's quite a setup. I'm definitely looking at a few hundred bucks not a few thousand. my next major expenditure will be an employee. I just don't think laminator falls in the category of things I really need.

[bill t.]

my next major expenditure will be an employee. I just don't think laminator falls in the category of things I really need.

That's what I thought until I started using my little laminator to glue canvas.  I'm not going back, ever.  Next time the heat is on it will be worth at least one employee.

Hah!  Dan's got himself into the classic "I can't use the _________ because there's stuff on the table" situation!  I do it all the time.

[Jeff Magidson]

Have you looked at the smaller Drytac manual unit. Always seems to be one or two on Ebay.
It is so nice to be able to do everything in house when possible.
Not sure if I would even use a laminator for those small sizes. Adhesive backed foamboard,stick your print to it,turn over and trim with a razor.
What substrate is this company using?

Dan: do you have a good/recommended source for adhesive backed foamboard? I looked around on the web, pricing is all over the place, not sure of quality, heard some reports of adhesive failure.

[dgberg]

I have to look back through my records. I bought a case of the Bainbridge Adhesive Foamboard several years ago and rarely use it now that I have the laminators.
Harbor Sales in Suddlersville,Md. used to carry it. You can also purchase it from the Clearbags folks for $220.00 a case of 25 - 32" x 40"
Does not work with canvas but just about anything else sticks pretty good.

[mstevensphoto]

for all things framing find your local/regional moulding supply wholesale shop and get an account. there is no store on the web that sells mat board, foam core, glass, frame sections(of quality) and so on for less than my wholesale distributor. it's nothing special about them, it's just cutting out a middle man. you'll buy by the case or half case, but the savings are huge. I buy half inch gator board 4x8' sheets for just over $80 - they're $144 at the next cheapest place I could find. 6 ply archival mats cost me what 4 ply non archival does from dick blick.

[bill t.]

Anything that is large or heavy enough to have to ship freight is almost always cheaper from local suppliers.

If you have a Piedmont Plastics near you, they can't be beat for things like Gator, plexi sheets, dibond, Seal adhesive products, etc.  My local branch always has around 60 sheets of 4x8 x 3/16 black Gator at $42 a pop just because I asked them to.  They will even deliver for free up to 55 miles yonder in Santa Fe.

If I only had a really good local distributor of picture frame moulding I would think I had died and gone to freight-charge-free Heaven.

But those $60/sheet + freight guys online are bandits, IMHO.  In general, there seem to very few good deals online for anything to do with artistic consumables.  You are almost always better going to wholesalers who will just love to get your business and and send you Xmas cards like clockwork.

[Michael H. Cothran]

Dan: do you have a good/recommended source for adhesive backed foamboard? I looked around on the web, pricing is all over the place, not sure of quality, heard some reports of adhesive failure.

I'm not Dan, but I'll be glad to chime in with my favorite company, which is Coda, Inc. They provide a variety of adhesive backed mounting boards, including foamboard. Here'a a link to their site -
http://www.codamount.com/index.html

Check under their Mountboards and Display Mounts for all their mounting boards. Look around at their other products while you're there.

I've been a happy customer of many of their products for at least 15 years. In addition to their mounting boards, I also use one of their cold mount laminators plus their laminates in my studio. Referencing mounting boards, I've used their Mural Mounts, Standouts, 3/16" Gatorfoam, 3/16" foamboard, and most recently, their .080" Styrene boards. All are great, and NEVER has their adhesive failed. You can call them for a price catalog, and request a sample packet of each of their adhesive backed boards. They used to be free, and I presume they still are.
I'll be glad to answer any questions you might have about them or their products. BTW - I deal with the East Coast office.

Oops. I just realized that I already responded to this thread a few days ago with the same information. My apologies to anyone for being redundant here.

[mstevensphoto]

Bill, do you like Decor? they've got some nice stuff for great deals if you order 500ft (and they let you combine) - freight to me is $80 which works out to a pretty good deal per linear foot at that quantity.

[bill t.]

I've settled on Universal-Arquati, Omega, Chelsea, MyMoulding, and once-in-a-while TenPlus.  I usually buy in the 12-16 box range, which comes in around 1000 lbs to about a ton depending on the profiles.  For LA to Albuquerque the freight charge is typically $160 -$220 for that weight range using low-ball carriers like R&L and Estes.  I especially like Universal because they pick up half the freight on that size of order, in addition to nice quantity discounts.

The trick with shipping is to buy lots of moulding at the same time, 2 boxes will ship at about $130, 16 at around $220.  That's a big per-foot difference.  Those high freight minimum charges really put the damper on buying small quantities of large items online.

The only manufacturer in this area that delivers for free is Larson Juhl, but they have this asinine requirement that their customers be a store-front operation, and I am more of the garage-door variety.  So I'm showing up at WCAF (end of this month) with a year's worth of invoices for over 11,000 feet of moulding, which I believe makes me the biggest moulding user in the state.

Depending on where you are Studio has some pretty nice freight discounts as well.  Unfortunately those pristine looking woods don't stand up too well to my Art Fair mandhandling, and are a bit chip-prone on the saw.