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Author Topic: Black Angels  (Read 1871 times)

michael ellis

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Black Angels
« on: December 26, 2011, 02:19:13 pm »

I have been working on scanning some of my old film (negs and slides,35mm, 6x and 4x5) and have found it to be quite the learning process. I think I am on the right track and would appreciate some feedback, not just regarding the scan technique. I have an Epson v700 and am using Silverfast SE+ with my Mac. I am finding black and white more difficult to scan than color slides. I have just started using Lightroom too and may not be using output sharpening correctly.

It surprised me to find that I need to post process heavily even a negative I could print with ease when I had a wet darkroom. I am also horrified to see all the dust spots on my scans. It is so easy now to zoom in on the detail that it is hard to tell when to stop spotting sometimes. At least we don't have to spot each print now.

This photo was shot in Oaxaca, Mexico on 35 mm film. Let me know what you think.

Thanks,

Michael
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Rob C

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Re: Black Angels
« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2011, 04:38:27 pm »

I like the image quite a lot; there's something not quite right with the 'print', though. Maybe it's the areas outwith the doorway itself could do with some more work... perhaps more internal contrast in the materials? That area under the main poster looks like it has been faked in somehow - as if it isn't really there; were it wet print, I'd think you'd over-dodged it for some reason.

Rob C
« Last Edit: December 26, 2011, 04:42:06 pm by Rob C »
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michael ellis

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Re: Black Angels
« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2011, 07:56:07 pm »

Hi Rob-

Thank you for taking a look. I admit to using masks and curves on several sections of this image to, hopefully, improve contrast,  particularly dealing with the posters. 

"That area under the main poster looks like it has been faked in somehow - as if it isn't really there; were it wet print, I'd think you'd over-dodged it for some reason."

I think the area you are referring to is the almost transparent poster remains (cotton club) beneath the (very) white large poster. You can see some wood grain through the poster. I made some pretty big changes in the door area and my contrast and masking may need some refinement. Would you change the tonalities in that area in addition to contrast? Am I right in thinking you want that area beneath the large poster  darker and higher contrast? Is the main poster too white?

I appreciate you taking the time to look and comment on my photo.

Sincerely,

Michael

 
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Rob C

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Re: Black Angels
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2011, 04:01:44 am »

The problem with the area beneath the main poster for the Black Angels is that it looks as if it were the perfect palimpsestic example! It gives a sense of ghostliness almost, as if it were there but not there at the same time. This is probably due to the presence of the wood grain beneath it, which, were the area on wet print, would look 'milky' as if it needed either more exposure and/or a little more development to bring it to a normal look. (That's one of the reasons I'm so glad I had an upbringing steeped in darkrooms - made understanding what a print might look like so much simpler!)

There's a good chance you've tried to be too clever with that door area - how does it look if you just masked off the walls and did a local, overall job with Curves on the door itself, without doing anything to the bits of separate poster inside the area? Then, if you felt like it, you cold reverse the job by masking the door itself and taking another simple Curves trip on the walls by themselves? The shot's taken with a sidelñight - why not try going somewhat darker over the entire picture, again via Curves, and increasing the contrast a tiny bit? I'm sure the answer lies within the Curves tool alone.

I've sometimes become very complex with masking and colour correcting small parts of a picture; generally, it leads me to confusion and that state of spiritual perfection where everything looks good and bad in equal parts. I'm not sure if it's the Nirvana you seek, but you might well find it by accident!

At the end of the day, nobody needs to be able to read everything on the posters - it's just the idea of the place and things one would want to express - IMO, as Cooter would write.

Rob C

Eric Myrvaagnes

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Re: Black Angels
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2011, 10:26:59 am »

The more I look at it the more I agree with Rob. I like the picture and most of the tonalities are quite nice, but the section with the old poster and some of the wood around it looks as if it has been dodged excessively. It feels to me as if the tonality of the wood in that area should be pretty close to that of other parts of the door nearby. Otherwise the sense of deep shadows at both the top and bottom of the door don't seem believable.

It's definitely worth playing with some more, perhaps in a gentler way, IMHO.

Eric
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-Eric Myrvaagnes (visit my website: http://myrvaagnes.com)

michael ellis

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Re: Black Angels
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2011, 10:58:07 am »

Hi Rob and Eric-

I just about had a new post ready when the site timed out. Oh well. I think I can remember what I said.

I am attaching the original scan. I think the problem with the posters you are seeing is inherent in the original neg. The area under the main poster almost seems to glow. When I started working on this I was pretty worried about going "overboard" since it is so easy to do in photoshop so I didn't change tones too much except to lighten the main poster and increase contrast.

I am also attaching a new version where I have incorporated the overall darkening suggestion as well as taking another hack at the doorway contrast. I have also just looked at an old wet print of this and the doorway is substantially darker than I had made it.

Thanks for the help.

Michael
« Last Edit: December 27, 2011, 10:59:44 am by michael ellis »
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