liquid varnish nightmare

[texshooter]

after some practice varnishing my inkjet prints with krylon spray can varnish, i decided to give liquitex bottled liquid varnish a try because the spray can fumes are insufferable.  here's what happened

1 air bubbles galore
2 paper curled up
3 some pigment ink desolved and streaked (used foam brush)

i cant believe people have success with this stuff.

am i doing something wrong?

to prevent the tiny air bubbles, i thought of dunking the entire print in a varnish liquid bath so that i dont have to use any brushing.  has anyone tried varnish submersion?

[KenBabcock]

Get yourself some foam rollers.  You can't brush it on with foam brushes.  It needs to be rolled on (or sprayed if you ever go that route).

Then get yourself one of the following varnishes:

Eco Print Shield
Timeless (or Glamor II - both made by Breathing Color)
Clear Shield Type C

Next make sure the canvas you're using is water resistant.  If it's not water resistant you will not be able to roll anything on without lifting the ink.  If you're canvas is not water resistant you will either have to spray your finish on, or apply a "fix" like Premier Art Print Shield (not Eco - Eco is water-based).  

Why don't you tell us more about your setup (canvas, ink, drying time, etc...) and we can help you more.

Oh, and NEVER EVER submerse your canvas in varnish!

[texshooter]

thanx, ill try some print shield and roller.  im not using canvas. im using baryta paper with pigment ink,  so i assume it is not water resistant. hopefully the print shield varnish wont make tiny air bubbles. if so, ill go back to spray which gives good results but with noxious fumes.  whatever works.

[luxborealis]

I can't understand why is it necessary to put anything on baryta paper with pigment inks? What does it do that framing under glass doesn't do? Yikes - I'm loving the fact that with digital printing I can leave the chemicals behind (unlike my decades of darkroom work!).

[KenBabcock]

For some reason I thought you were using canvas. 

I agree with Terry.  Why are you coating baryta if you're already using pigment ink?

BTW, Terry - we're both from Guelph!

[texshooter]

because i like the extra gloss and because baryta scratches too easily without a protective coat.

[John R Smith]

The baryta papers do indeed mark very easily. The other reason that you might think of applying a protective spray to them is to remove gloss differential, which is pretty minimal with the best modern inksets but nonetheless still there.

Frankly, though, if you are going to be subjecting your prints to quite a lot of handling (as you might in a design studio or just passing them around to friends and family) you would be better off printing on a RC lustre paper which gives you a much tougher finish out of the printer. Save the fine baryta papers for your best work which is intended to be framed, and there should be no need to spray it with anything.

John

[luxborealis]

Surly there is a paper that would provide the "extra gloss" you prefer that is robust enough not to require spraying. Maybe it's my minimalist perspective, but the fewer steps and less work (and additional chemicals/technology) to achieve a given end, the better.

[texshooter]

yes there is a glossier paper than baryta fiber. that would be glossy RC, however the extra gloss from a varnish looks better than the extra gloss fron an rc paper. 

update:  i just tried applying Golden MSA resin varnish (with a varnish bristle brush because foam rollers will disolve) which is alcohol based, on my Harman baryta print. although thie msa varnish does not cause paper warping, there are still tiny air bubbles that get trapped on the surface and mar the print (although not as bad as Liquitex varnish.  and the fumes are still strong (although not as bad as Krylon can spray varnish.) 

i dont think im going to try the Premier Art Print Shield because i suspect this product was designed for a spray gun. their website only provides spray gun instructions for this product.  i dont want to have to buy a whole liter of it just to find out the foam roller method causes air bubbles too.  i suspect that these liquid varnish products work well with canvas is because the texture of the canvas breaks up the air bubbles as the varnish is applied.  paper products however are too smooth for rolling and brushing and should have varnish appied either withh a spray gun or aeresol can.  Damn air bubbles.

[Robcat]

update:  i just tried applying Golden MSA resin varnish (with a varnish bristle brush because foam rollers will disolve) which is alcohol based, on my Harman baryta print. although thie msa varnish does not cause paper warping, there are still tiny air bubbles that get trapped on the surface and mar the print (although not as bad as Liquitex varnish.  and the fumes are still strong (although not as bad as Krylon can spray varnish.) 

 i dont want to have to buy a whole liter of it just to find out the foam roller method causes air bubbles too.  i suspect that these liquid varnish products work well with canvas is because the texture of the canvas breaks up the air bubbles as the varnish is applied.  paper products however are too smooth for rolling and brushing and should have varnish appied either withh a spray gun or aeresol can.  Damn air bubbles.

Agree. I 've tried brushing and rolling on Harman baryta and had no success. I don't think there's any way around spraying. I know some folks have said to just get your baryta paper to the framer asap, but I've found even that is dicey without a light spray coating (eg of Print Shield or similar varnish from a spray can). For heavier coating, such as for unprotected display, HVLP spraying is better than spray cans. Dan Berg has done some test samples for me at his shop using Clear Jet, and the look is good, though there seems to be differential absorption of the varnish depending on the amount of ink---the black areas absorb less and will ripple/run before other areas.
Rob P

[fetish]

compatible protection spray for baryta papers without changing the texture much are probably the lyson printguard or the hahnemuehle protective aerosol spray which comes in cans.
i've not tried print shield yet so cant comment on that.

anything else, esp the brushed on types, is probably too thick and messy and would easily ruin the surface of the print.

[nihil]

If you use thick varnishes with a foam roller, like Breathing Color Timeless or Glamour II, you should use matte fine art papers (or canvas), like Hahnemühle Photo Rag. The result will be a semigloss to glossy print anyway. Already glossy papers won't absorb the varnish, and the result looks pretty bad.

[mstevensphoto]

It sounds like you're trying hard to avoid spraying...But I'm going to say that you could solve all of your problems for about $80-100 if you go that way.

if you've been spraying from a nasty aerosol can I assume you have somewhere to spray (even if it's the garage). Go buy a $68 wagner HVLP sprayer at your local big box store and order some Timeless from breathing color. The sprayer does remarkably well for the cost. I've used a bunch of wagner paint sprayers and thought "there's no way I'm buying anything from them, the paint sprayers are beyond crappy." - I've been using my cheap-o wagner hvlp sprayer for a year and love it. with timeless there's very little odor AND easy water clean up. For the first several months I sprayed on my back porch when warm enough the garage when outside was windy or cool. you don't need much space or a fancy setup.

the bubbles may be a product of too much product, try thinner layers. if you're spraying the nice thing is that you can do several very fine layers (although some of the coating manufacturers recommend one thicker coat)

I suppose you could also consider a laminated coating, but that's more setup and stuff to work with.

[bill t.]

For the first several months I sprayed on my back porch when warm enough the garage when outside was windy or cool.

I routinely spray thick coats of Glamour II outside down to about 46F, provided the humidity is not more than about 30% (to avoid condensation on the nozzle).  The results are not just good, but downright superior.  Go figure.  Desperation is sometimes a good teacher.  I coated 4, 4x8 foot panels one sunny day while standing in snow!  Is that hardcore, or what?

Have only limited experience coating matte papers.  But I feel solvent is the only way to go for papers.  The surfaces you get with water acrylics lack a certain subtlety on papers, hard to describe.