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Author Topic: Plywerk mounting panel review  (Read 10783 times)

neile

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Plywerk mounting panel review
« on: December 20, 2011, 09:30:24 pm »

Since the topic of framing and mounting comes up occasionally here I thought folks might like to see the review I just posted of Plywerk mounting panels. I've had them done for about a month and just never got around to putting my thoughts down. Such is life :)

Review is at http://www.danecreek.com/blog/2011/12/20/plywerk-mounting-panel-review.html. Overall I loved the look and can't wait to try something a little larger in the new year.

Neil
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Ken Doo

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Re: Plywerk mounting panel review
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2011, 10:51:42 pm »

Thanks for the review, Neil!  It's nice to have display options for clients.

ken

Mike Guilbault

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Re: Plywerk mounting panel review
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2011, 07:15:00 am »

I thought that wood was the worst thing to mount photos to though. Is there something I'm missing?
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Plywerk mounting panel review
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2011, 08:10:53 am »

I thought that wood was the worst thing to mount photos to though. Is there something I'm missing?
Composite woods that have chemical bonding agents are a problem.  The website notes that no urea-formaldehyde plywood was used in the manufacture of these panels.  That being said, this mounting process should not be considered archival and long term impact on the print quality is unknown.  This is another interesting approach to mounting which should be considered along with surface mounting to acrylic/dibond or dibond alone.  The one thing I didn't see on the website was how heavy these panels are.  Perhaps Niel can weigh in on this as it would be interesting to know how this compares with dibond (there does appear to be a size limitation on these panels because of potential warping issues which one would not see with dibond).
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dgberg

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Re: Plywerk mounting panel review
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2011, 08:58:45 am »

Mike,
The materials shown are all ply core plywood panels. Not solid wood.
Basicly the same products we use in cabinetmaking. (The bamboo has a slightly different core structure.)
Just like mdf panels these will have little to no warping or shrinkage. They should stay very flat.
If I were to put photos on larger ply panels I would most certainly seal the back and of course the edges.
Solid wood is a different story. Never reccomended.
I have most of these wood products here but will almost always choose Dibond for larger mounts. A great mounting substrate and much lighter.
Those finished wood edges do look nice though!



« Last Edit: December 29, 2011, 11:22:25 pm by Dan Berg »
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framah

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Re: Plywerk mounting panel review
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2011, 10:02:57 am »

I thought that wood was the worst thing to mount photos to though. Is there something I'm missing?

The wood is only one of your problems here if you are worried about "archivalness".
 The adhesives considered here are just as bad so if you are thinking of using this system, then don't consider it in any way archival. Just consider it a nice way to present your images without consideration to longevity.

Personally, i would just buy the panel WITH the adhesive on it rather than the idea of spraying them just to save a couple of bucks.
The Hassle Factor  alone for spraying is worth the cost of them putting the adhesive on it for you. No muss, no fuss.

Interesting system.. thanks, Neil!
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neile

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Re: Plywerk mounting panel review
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2011, 10:28:10 am »

Agree with the comments already posted regarding archivability. It's not archival. But neither is face-mount plexi (which is all the rage) or the aluminum back that Mark wrote about earlier this year.

They definitely have weight to them. The 10x10" squares weigh just under 2 lbs each. I'd use these instead of dibond or MDF if I wanted the visual look of the edge, in particular the bamboo panels which look really nice from the side.

Neil
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dgberg

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Re: Plywerk mounting panel review
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2011, 11:02:22 am »

Agree with the comments already posted regarding archivability. It's not archival. But neither is face-mount plexi (which is all the rage) or the aluminum back that Mark wrote about earlier this year.

They definitely have weight to them. The 10x10" squares weigh just under 2 lbs each. I'd use these instead of dibond or MDF if I wanted the visual look of the edge, in particular the bamboo panels which look really nice from the side.

Neil


Neil.
 Also agree that the edge of the ply panels are what makes these so attractive.
Thanks for the link.

JimAscher

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Re: Plywerk mounting panel review
« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2011, 12:56:05 pm »

Rather than purchase the panels with the adhesive already on (apparently the full surface of the panel) or spray adhesive on the panel (or the rear of the print), wouldn't it be simpler to apply an adhesive film (such as that made by 3M) to the rear of the print and press that onto the panel?  (I use the 3M film for all my mounting on mount board.)  An additional advantage of this would be to mount a print of a size smaller than the panel providing then for a wood border around the print, which might be attractive.
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Plywerk

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Re: Plywerk mounting panel review
« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2011, 01:12:36 pm »

Firstly, it's truly fantastic to see people talking about our product and discussing it's uses and intricacies in such detail. Thank you for that.

In reading your comments you have already answered many questions but there are a few unanswered that I'd like to address:

1) Alan Goldhammer mentioned the weight of the panels. You can find this out very easily by going to our website and adding a blank panel to the cart. Once added, and the options (size, material etc) have been made, the shipping calculator on the right will show you the total weight of your selected panels.

2) Neil of Dane Creek (thank you for your awesome blogpost btw) mentioned that he might try 3M Super 77 next time. I actually used this product for about a year when I was mounting my wife's photography to Plywood panels and selling them at the Portland Saturday Market back in 2005/6 prior to starting Plywerk. However, after about a year I started to get people coming back to me with peeling images. Next time I was at market I found an image that I knew had been around for over 6 months, pulled it out the bag, pulled the corner and the whole print peeled of the wood with zero effort. It felt like pulling of an apple iphone static screen protector if you know what I mean. ;) My wife and I stopped production, pulled out of the market and I spent the next 6 months researching adhesives. The one we use now is an even better derivative of the one that came out best in my R&D back then. We have personally got Plywerk (even one in our bathroom, next to the shower, not recommended btw ;)) that have been going strong for almost six years now with no signs of peeling. I would also like to note that since that time we've put in many hours of continued R&D. We take great pride in our product and as such run the company with a ideology of constant improvement.

3) Jim Ascher posed the idea of "An additional advantage of this would be to mount a print of a size smaller than the panel providing then for a wood border around the print, which might be attractive." We have tried this and it's not easy. Alignment (i.e. having a consistently sized border) is an obvious problem. However, we are working on launching bevelled Edge Plywerk as an alternative to this idea. You can see some of our beta's right here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/plywerk/sets/72157628504836415.

I hope that answers some more questions and helps you decide wether or not Plywerk is an option for you. Please feel free to contact us with more questions. We love nothing more than nerding out about our product. For more nerd-like details you can also visit the Techspecs and FAQ pages on our website.

You should also know that I just switched to a purple mouthwash and could not be happier.

Cheers, Kjell
« Last Edit: December 21, 2011, 02:00:33 pm by Plywerk »
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Ken Doo

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Re: Plywerk mounting panel review
« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2011, 03:16:48 pm »

....Personally, i would just buy the panel WITH the adhesive on it rather than the idea of spraying them just to save a couple of bucks.
The Hassle Factor  alone for spraying is worth the cost of them putting the adhesive on it for you. No muss, no fuss.

I too thought about using my own adhesive, thinking maybe straight, undiluted Glamour II would provide a good mount.  The plus-side being able to make minute adjustments in print placement on the bamboo wood panel.  Thirty seconds later, nah, just buy the adhesive on it, be more careful, and avoid the muss and fuss.   :)

neile

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Re: Plywerk mounting panel review
« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2011, 12:33:23 am »

Y'all have convinced me I'm a fool :) Pre-applied adhesive only!

Neil
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framah

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Re: Plywerk mounting panel review
« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2011, 10:26:22 am »

The 3M PMA on a roll that was mentioned is not a good method for PERMANENTLY adhering anything as it does have a tendency to bubble or even lift off on the edges overtime. This is most prominent on larger pieces as it doesn't withstand the shearing factor of the paper expanding and contracting. A really good adhesive which these guys seem to have figured out is designed to withstand those forces and keep things in place over time.

Always better to let the pros do it right the first time and forget about trying to re-invent the wheel for a minor savings.
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Photo Op

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Re: Plywerk mounting panel review
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2011, 08:15:57 am »

Neil- Thanks for the review. I've recently been toying with the technique using maple wood, 3M adhesive spray and various protective coatings, but working with dimensions that limit the print size. The range of sizes offered here (plus the bamboo which I can't get at Home Depot) makes this really appealing. So not meening to hijack the thread, could you expand on the technique you used in regard to this statement contained in the review-

" I split the image into three 10×10” prints on Ilford Galerie Gold Fibre Silk paper."

What technique did you use?
What software did you use?

Thanks in advance,

Dave B
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neile

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Re: Plywerk mounting panel review
« Reply #14 on: December 29, 2011, 11:07:10 am »

Dave,

I just used Photoshop. I brought the image into Photoshop, adjusted the image size to 30x10" at 300 ppi. Then I expanded the canvas size slightly larger, put some guides in at 1", 11", 12", 22",  and 23", moved the image over to the 1" mark, and used the rectangle selection tool to move the pieces of the image over to the right guide locations.

I'm sure there are other ways to do this :) I think Perfect Resize can split images up into sections.

Neil
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Photo Op

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Re: Plywerk mounting panel review
« Reply #15 on: December 29, 2011, 01:52:14 pm »

Thanks Neil! Yes, Perfect Resize does do it.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2011, 01:58:01 pm by Photo Op »
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David

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Re: Plywerk mounting panel review
« Reply #16 on: December 29, 2011, 08:48:12 pm »

"Always better to let the pros do it right the first time and forget about trying to re-invent the wheel for a minor savings."

I don't agree with that statement at all.  Had I always allowed the "pros" to do it, I would have never tried anything myself.  Would Tesla have invented AC since Edison (whom he worked for) had already invented DC?  It's amazing to me how many improvements have been made by neophytes just because they looked at something differently than the "experts".  

I still don't know what the term "archival" means as it relates to photography; I can't seem to get an exact definition.  How long will any of these products last?  Who really knows, I have photographs glued to MDF that are 30+ years old and they haven't delaminated.  I have been in the construction business and a cabinet and furniture maker for my entire life (I'm considered an expert  ;) literally in court) and can tell you that Bamboo plywood is phenomenally stable and quite attractive.   I just can't imagine many prints here ever being worth a $1,000,000.00, but who knows.  

All I can say is, experimentation leads to invention and or improvement of existing devices.  I have friends who have improved chest compression devices, channel locks, bicycle transmissions, etc.  I started restoring cars when I was 15 years old and I had wondered why I couldn't use automotive finishes on wood, the "experts" told me finishes made for wood were "better", I didn't take their advice and found out that they automotive finishes did in fact produce a better finish for certain products.   I have a lot of other examples of how experimentation led me down the path to success.  

"Just Do It"

Almost forgot, the bamboo plywood "Plyboo" by Smith and Fong is fairly expensive, I believe it's about $12.00/sq.ft.    
« Last Edit: December 31, 2011, 08:59:38 am by Gemmtech »
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dgberg

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Re: Plywerk mounting panel review
« Reply #17 on: December 29, 2011, 11:09:17 pm »

Cali Bamboo in San Diego has 3/4" 3 ply bamboo for $205.00 for a 4' X 8' sheet. (plus truck freight shipping and minimum orders makes for a pretty big number)
I like the bamboo look but prefer the multiply Baltic birch (Also known as Russian birch)
In 3/4" thickness it comes in 5' X 5' sheets at $45.00 per sheet. Just under $2.00 a sq. ft.
After cutting to size we edge sand and then spray the back and edges with 2 coats of catalized laquer.
Run it through the laminator and adhere a sheet of print mount ultra to the clean side. We over laminate the print then run it through the laminator again to mount to the substrate. A somewhat time consuming process but a fantastic finished mount ready to hang. Works great for canvas too!
Most companies that sell these mounts process them all pretty much in the same fashion with minor variations.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2011, 09:18:51 am by Dan Berg »
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Gemmtech

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Re: Plywerk mounting panel review
« Reply #18 on: December 31, 2011, 09:03:20 am »

Dan,

I had to clear the cobwebs, didn't you close the cabinet shop?  What made you reopen the doors?

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dgberg

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Re: Plywerk mounting panel review
« Reply #19 on: December 31, 2011, 09:14:33 am »

Yes open again.
I had 2 of my interior designers call me the same week with some very nice projects.
That same week my senior craftsman that had been with me for 16 years walked through the door just to say hi.
He was interested in coming back so here we are making saw dust in one shop and printing in another.
I had to buy a bunch of equipment to make this all work. (That was the fun part!)
Maybe I should have you hit me up side the head to clear my cobwebs!
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