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Author Topic: Anyone else sick of complex image processing?  (Read 9633 times)

Anders_HK

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Re: Anyone else sick of complex image processing?
« Reply #20 on: December 07, 2011, 10:11:12 am »

2 lenses only? I have 5 for the Hy6 and wouldn´t want to miss a single one of them. Which two lenses do you have?

80/2.8 Xenotar PQ AFD --- best lens I ever owned. Lovely character.

50 Distagon FLE

As an advanced amateur I am unsure if I need any more. It keeps matters simple, and breeze for carrying around.  ;)
« Last Edit: December 07, 2011, 10:12:46 am by Anders_HK »
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David Eichler

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Re: Anyone else sick of complex image processing?
« Reply #21 on: December 07, 2011, 09:46:13 pm »

I barely read the OP's initial comments, and didn't read any of the other comments. I think that all that matters is the end result, however you get there. Cartier-Bresson claimed to know nothing about photography. Ansel Adams seemed to know everything about photography. I don't care. I just want to see the results.
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Martin Kristiansen

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Re: Anyone else sick of complex image processing?
« Reply #22 on: December 08, 2011, 12:09:41 am »

I barely read the OP's initial comments, and didn't read any of the other comments. I think that all that matters is the end result, however you get there. Cartier-Bresson claimed to know nothing about photography. Ansel Adams seemed to know everything about photography. I don't care. I just want to see the results.

If you had read the post and the comments you would have noticed that this is not about criticism of individual workflows but a discussion to determine how much post people are happy to do. I find heavy computer work tedious for example.

No one has said anything negative about lots of post other than not wanting to personally spend hours in front of a monitor. Others are happy with a lot of computer work

I agree that all that matters is the result but this thread was never about that
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: Anyone else sick of complex image processing?
« Reply #23 on: December 08, 2011, 01:07:34 am »

Hi,

It was always the way that making the best of an image involved a lot of work. In darkroom times we burned and dodged. Many pictures need extensive processing, even if color coming out of the camera is OK.

The camera cannot know what colors and rendering are on your mind. The camera is not intended to reproduce colors faithfully. Such a camera would be good for reproduction but little else. If you shoot raw the color processing is done in the raw processor. If you are satisfied with the defaults, you probably miss a lot.

Best regards
Erik




If you had read the post and the comments you would have noticed that this is not about criticism of individual workflows but a discussion to determine how much post people are happy to do. I find heavy computer work tedious for example.

No one has said anything negative about lots of post other than not wanting to personally spend hours in front of a monitor. Others are happy with a lot of computer work

I agree that all that matters is the result but this thread was never about that
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Erik Kaffehr
 

BernardLanguillier

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Re: Anyone else sick of complex image processing?
« Reply #24 on: December 08, 2011, 01:42:28 am »

Just like I liked spending time with my 4x5 camera, I like stitching as it slows down my work and helps me produce better images.

The time required to generate prefect stitching is in the range of a few minutes these days with the latest versions of PTGui or Autopano pro and pretty trivial compared to the time spent in PS on most images (either single or stitches).

In terms of quality, stitching takes you a step higher, just like 4x5 used to be. It is up to each of us to decide how good is good enough, but I would not consider current output medium as being the end of the road. 80MP will seem low in 10 years from now. :-)

Cheers,
Bernard

MarkL

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Re: Anyone else sick of complex image processing?
« Reply #25 on: December 08, 2011, 04:14:40 pm »

I feel like this sometimes. One landscape shot is often 20+ frames after accounting for focus stacking, stitching and exposure blending and the total time inc. post makes large format look fast.
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DeeJay

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Re: Anyone else sick of complex image processing?
« Reply #26 on: December 08, 2011, 05:23:13 pm »

Seems I'm going to buck the trend and say that I actually like it. Of corse there are times where I want to get away from it when I'm buried under a tonne of jobs but need to motor through it but for me it's a big part of the image making and creative process...i really enjoy it and while I've tried getting other people to do it I've never once been happy with the results and it's just easier, quicker and better time if I do it my self. I don't have the ability to miss deadlines when the retoucher hasn't completed it or done it right needing to do it again.

It's a skill I've developed over a long time and that is very valuable. I've developed procedures and techniques that are unique to me and my work and that is even more valuable as it differentiates me from the next person. But on the other hand I only get 4 hours of sleep a night mostly 7 days w week. But it's really by choice. Still after close to 2 decades it doesn't feel like work. It has made me indispensable with my clients. If something goes wrong outside of the teams ability to plan for it then I know I can fix anything. There has never been a time that it hasn't worked.

Most of my computer work on an image is spent working the colour, tonality, of an image. Massaging the tones. I'm actually retouching less than I used to since my capture and lighting skills and gear has improved over the years and also as the jobs get better and the models get better, there's more organisation on shoot day, so less to "fix" later on. I am a stickler for getting it done in camera. Regardless of it it being easier or not, as a professional, a craftsman and an artisan that's your job to do it in camera at shoot time.

Generally I can't step away from it until it's right. It's never perfect though which is an ongoing source of angst. :) My favourite quote is a Michelangelo one (I believe). Something along the lines of "you don't finish a work of art you merely abandon it". Rings very true for me.

If I ever catch myself complaining I remember all those years I spent struggling to get work and I shut tf up, be thankful and enjoy the ride. I'm probably going to take someone on to do the general cleaning, skin work etc but to give it up is to me giving up the reason I fell in love with photography and fell in love with the image making process.

Lastly the computer hasn't changed anything. I remember the early days or doing it in the darkroom. Processing, proofing, spending a whole night on a print and blowing a whole box of paper just to get it perfect, spotting a neg Then spending a weekend toning, bleaching, working and finishing the print. I used to love painting but liked the immediacy of photography. Maybe it would just be quicker to return to painting!

« Last Edit: December 08, 2011, 05:50:49 pm by DeeJay »
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PdF

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Re: Anyone else sick of complex image processing?
« Reply #27 on: December 08, 2011, 06:41:28 pm »

There is much talk here of the past, and about Ektachrome or Fujichrome sheets. Do you remember Pola 55 and multiple tests that were conducted during the progress of the implementation of the lighting in the studio or outside ? We tried to waste as little as possible, because this was big budget. How many Polas before saying "OK, we shoot it!"?. And how long (after trips to the lab) to see an ekta with the magnifier and say "OK, this one is the best"?

PdF
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Martin Kristiansen

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Re: Anyone else sick of complex image processing?
« Reply #28 on: December 09, 2011, 01:26:37 am »

There is much talk here of the past, and about Ektachrome or Fujichrome sheets. Do you remember Pola 55 and multiple tests that were conducted during the progress of the implementation of the lighting in the studio or outside ? We tried to waste as little as possible, because this was big budget. How many Polas before saying "OK, we shoot it!"?. And how long (after trips to the lab) to see an ekta with the magnifier and say "OK, this one is the best"?

PdF

I remember it well. It doesnt seem so long ago. The shoots took longer but once it was done we all went home. Now we process.

Just to be clear I have very different work flows with my commercial work and private work. With commercial work there is a lot of retouching and deep etching. The workload is getting less as the equipment improves but I still employ people to handle this end of things. One very good person in particular With my private work I do it all myself and that is the area where I have decided not do do HDR, focus stacking and stitching. Well sometimes I still stitch but not as often. 80MP reduces the need for stitching somewhat.
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ixania2

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Re: Anyone else sick of complex image processing?
« Reply #29 on: December 09, 2011, 06:12:26 am »


No one has said anything negative about lots of post other than not wanting to personally spend hours in front of a monitor. Others are happy with a lot of computer work

I agree that all that matters is the result but this thread was never about that

the journey is the reward. not the result.
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Rob C

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Re: Anyone else sick of complex image processing?
« Reply #30 on: December 09, 2011, 02:42:18 pm »

In commerce, editorial, most anything, it's the result.

Retouching and manipulation is a slippery slope and during the film days it was the sole domain of advertising, as prior to full adoption of photoshop, retouching was expensive.

Now everyone has it, some are good, some are frightful, most somewhere in the middle.

Regardless, the toothpaste is out of the tube and every image of importance has some form of manipulation. 
IMO

BC




But surely there will come a replacement for toothpaste? No? A change in fashion? A return to reality? If it does, I think it will be women-led. I hope to God it does come, if only to make looking at pictures more interesting again.

Rob C

mediumcool

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Re: Anyone else sick of complex image processing?
« Reply #31 on: December 10, 2011, 03:31:23 am »

the journey is the reward. not the result.

Ommmmmmmmmmm.  ;D
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Anders_HK

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Re: Anyone else sick of complex image processing?
« Reply #32 on: December 11, 2011, 09:37:52 am »

Lets bring it back to the OP again, with whom I agree;

Cut to 2011 and I have been shooting with the Aptus12R on a Cambo Ultima. In 9 months I have not done a single stitch, HDR or focus stack. If it doesn't work out the camera I chuck it. I am loving photography again.

Anyone else have these have this experience? Any other opinions on these work flows that I find over complicated.

Having not wanted to let go of film alongside digital, the AFi-II 12 (Aptus-II 12) is the first digital product to make me let go of film, a merge to point of me being fully content with the image quality. It brings me further than film but with satisfaction to my critical eye. It is not about the gear itself. Nor of having the latest at disposal, and nor have I been smoking! Let us be frank, we all know that very soon there will be 100MP and 160MP backs. I am sure they will be great. So what? What to my experience sets apart the 12 is the image quality. Colors are very right right out of box, curve adjustments, some WB if required, adjustments of specific colors to enhance etc as per our critical creative eye. Simple. Capture One works really excellent and just like my brain: photographically.

I am back to photography again. Not the gear.

Best regards
Anders

P.s. Financing was by selling five camera systems. I feel happier now. It is simple, photographic and even two lenses will do. Focus on IMAGE. And indeed, forgetting of the gear upgrade race, I have images  ;D.
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