Medium Format vs. Technical Camera - Pros and Cons of each

[hdomke]

Should I add a technical camera to my camera bag? Please help me understand the pros and cons of Medium Format vs. Technical Cameras. My goal is to create landscape photos that can be printed 20-feet wide.

I'm using a Contax 645 with a P65+.

[Doug Peterson]

Advantages/Disadvantages of a Tech Camera:

Pros:
Lens Quality (sharpness)
Lens Quality (microcontrast)
Lens Quality (lack of distortion***)
Lens Quality (very low Chromatic Aberration)
Lens Quality (good flare handling)
Lens Quality (out of focus draw)
Lens Quality (color)
Lens Quality (good brands: Schneider/Rodenstock)
Lens Quality (solidly built, smooth manual focusing)
Lens Quality (likely to be good enough for future digital backs)
Lens Quality (get the point?)
Lens Quality (but seriously the lenses are great)
Ability to Shift/Rise/Fall (Perspective)
Ability to Shift/Rise/Fall (stitching for resolution)
Ability to Shift/Rise/Fall (stitching for unusual aspect ratios)
Ability to Shift/Rise/Fall (stitching to make one lens have several effective focal lengths)
Ability to Tilt/Swing (Increase/Decrease perceived DOF)
Encourages slow/methodical/mechanical/tactile workflow
No Mirror Vibration
Extremely minimal Shutter Vibration
Light Weight and Small Packing-Size of a multi-lens Kit
Requires no batteries, chargers, custom functions, etc
Nothing electronic (in the body) to worry about in cold weather, humidity etc
Very accurate hyperfocal focusing possible
Beautifully crafted bodies (e.g. Cambo RS Anniversary Edition)
Shooting vertically requires no bracket/grip - just rotate the back 90 degrees
Extremely likely to be compatible with lenses/backs of the future**


Cons:
Requires slow/methodical/mechanical/tactile workflow
No autofocus
No through the lens focus*
No through the lens composition*
No through the lens exposure evaluation
No automation (e.g. no auto bracketing)
Must me manually re-cocked every shot
Must manually open/close the lens if using Live View on IQ
Must manually adjust aperture
You can forget to remove the rear (inside) lens cap!
Long lenses (anything beyond 90ish) are a big PITA to work with (though possible)
No built in lens hoods
No fast lenses (f/4 is a very fast tech camera lens)
No fast shutter speeds (1/500 max)
No ability to change gears and shoot portraits/birds/sports
Requires LCC workflow (annoying, takes additional time)
Some lens+back combos are not ideal (test)

Note my signature. I work for Capture Integration, a Value Added Reseller for medium format backs and tech cameras. I try very hard to give real-world, practical, honest advice, but I have to be considered biased.

*Ground glass and/or a sliding back with ground glass is available in many tech camera systems. Though it should be stated up front that if you're working with a high res back for large prints that fine-focusing 80mp on ground glass is challenging at best and nigh-impossible at worst. The Phase One IQ series, which can do a slow-and-limited live view on the back itself and which has a Focus Mask feature and fast tap-to-100% focus checking on the LCD is ideal as a back-end for a tech camera to help make up for the lack of other focus/composition methods.

**No one can tell the future. But generally speaking, electronic bodies that require digital interfaces for communication (e.g. Phase/Mamiya/Hasselblad/Contax/Hy6) come and go as far as support goes, whereas fully mechanical bodies that rely on the simplest possible communication (an on/off signal from the lens sync port) are very easy to support and will likely be supported for a long time. Likewise, lenses which require electronic interfaces to focus and change apertures are only supported for a few generations of bodies, but fully mechanical self-contained large format lenses are likely to be available/supported well into the future. This of course is all speculation - but I think the logic is very sound.

***Some of the Rodenstock wide's have some ugly distortion. There is post processing options to deal with it, but that does add another step. The Schneider wides are generally very low in distortion

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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[torger]

As far as I understand you get the most out of tech cameras if you use wide angle lenses (where you get better optical designs due to the shorter flange focal distance), and if you need tilt and shift. For landscape I personally think both tilt and shift are important, and tech cameras provide the best solutions there. The P65+ back also has such high resolution and large sensor that you really can make use of the high optical quality of the lenses.

[Alan W George]

landscape photos that can be printed 20-feet wide.

Stitching with a tech camera.

[Martin Kristiansen]

The above all sounds correct to me. I shoot on a Cambo with an 80 MP leaf back. I dont have a problem composing on the groundglass or focussing and I am 51. I do double check on the lcd however and have been known to miss.

Another downside is weight. My camera bag with tripod is 22kg and on walks over 5 km from the car I tend to get a bit tired on hot days. Still it is the only way I work for my private stuff these days. I love the workflow and mindset.

[dchew]

You can forget to remove the rear (inside) lens cap!

Doug,
Thank you, thank you!  I feel just a little bit less of an idiot.  I do this all the time.  Especially annoying when in Live View and it's not working.  Double check the shutter hold switch, fumble around, then the light bulb goes off.
 

Dave

[theguywitha645d]

Stitching with a tech camera and stitching with an SLR are really two different processes, although you can stitch like a SLR with a tech camera. As far as stitching, there is no clear advantage of one over the other simply because you have no clear level playing field--with a SLR I am not limited to angle of view, number of images, and there are many projections that really do not impact resolution.

Now if you want to stitch with a perpendicular image plane and do little post processing, then the tech camera is the one. You are limited as you move to the edge of the image circle and resolution does start to drop off, especially with wides. You also have the advantage of tilt to gain DoF while using larger apertures, and therefore less diffraction. But tilt is a bit of a double edge sword--great in the plains, but no so useful in the forest.

But you can get the best of both world by adding a tech camera and keeping the Contax. Both have a place.

[hdomke]

Doug,
That is a tremendously helpful response. Thank you!

[Eastway]

As a suggestion, perhaps you can look at both. The 28mm Phase One lens is a big piece of glass and it's very good. In comparison, an Alpa TC with a 23mm Digaron is around the same size and weight, but it is very, very, very good! Depending on what I'm shooting, I swap the 28mm for the Alpa/23 combination.

In my wish list are more large format lenses, because for landscape only trips, it would lighten my backpack considerably. However, I don't think I could survive with only a technical camera...

However, while there is a big difference in image quality with wide angles (especially in the corners), I am not so sure the difference is so great for longer focal lengths. The 55mm, 80mm and 110mm Schneider lenses I'm using on my Phase One 645DF are incredibly good, so there's not the same urgency to exchange these lenses for large format lenses...

If I have the time, I really enjoy using the Alpa as it takes me back to the large format camera process. I like cocking the shutter and listening to it whirr, spending the time getting the composition just right with the live view etc. However, if the light is changing quickly, all that goes out the window and I just shoot! Get the photo and crop later!

[Graham Welland]

Doug,
Thank you, thank you!  I feel just a little bit less of an idiot.  I do this all the time.  Especially annoying when in Live View and it's not working.  Double check the shutter hold switch, fumble around, then the light bulb goes off.
 

Dave

Thankfully I've never done this. I normally just forget to cock the shutter and then have to go through the MFDB nag screen, reset and try again. I still do this a disturbing number of times per shoot, followed by an obligatory DOH!

Regarding landscape shooting, I find that I can pretty much shoot anything I need using my Alpa STC/IQ160 and 35, 47, 90 & 150 lenses. If I need wider than the 35mm I can normally get the viewpoint I want through a stitch. Wide angle tilt/swing would be nice with the Alpa but to be honest I've become very proficient with focus stacks when I want more DoF in a shot.

[marcmccalmont]

I found packing my IQ180/wrs/40HR/70HR/105 plus the DF/55/75-150 too much for my backpack
I ended up with the IQ180/wrs/40HR/70HR/105 plus my 5DII/24-105/70-200f4/1.4x as a better combination
The most compelling reason for the technical camera is the IQ from the outstanding lenses
Marc

[dchew]

Should I add a technical camera to my camera bag?

Like Marc and Graham, I don't think I would take both at the same time. I had four camera systems:
Phase DF
Alpa STC
Canon 5DII
Olympus EPL-2

The only two I ever take together are the Alpa and the Oly.  The Phase DF sat so I sold it. But this all has to do with the shooting you do. I tend to venture out with a type of photography / subject matter in mind, so I have little use for two camera systems at once. Others may find that too restricting.

The technical camera is certainly one of the better tools for your stated goal.

Dave

[TH_Alpa]

For your information,

Alpa will enlarge all ALPA-12's tilt capacity down to some extreme wide-angle lenses. Please don't ask me for details for the time being (thanks for your understanding!). We are indeed working hard and together with some few external specialists on the further development of our ALPA 12 system. This is in the pipeline and should be announced officially and more detailed within a few months.

Important to notice: all existing ALPA 12 cameras will be integrated in all our projects. In other terms, this means that there is nobody owning any ALPA 12 now or buying one in the future who will not be able to use the new solutions. I think this is pretty much unique: even the first ALPA 12, an ALPA 12 WA with a 6x9 rollfilm back, (sold to Raymond Depardon/MAGNUM in 1998) is and will still be 100% integrated in our full system. It is important to keep this in mind when investing in a system, that your camera will hold its value not only in the near future, but for years after the investment.

Best regards,
Thierry

Regarding landscape shooting, I find that I can pretty much shoot anything I need using my Alpa STC/IQ160 and 35, 47, 90 & 150 lenses. If I need wider than the 35mm I can normally get the viewpoint I want through a stitch. Wide angle tilt/swing would be nice with the Alpa but to be honest I've become very proficient with focus stacks when I want more DoF in a shot.

[theguywitha645d]

It is important to keep this in mind when investing in a system, that your camera will hold its value not only in the near future, but for years after the investment.

Cameras are not an investment. Stock and bonds are a better option.

[Peter Devos]

Cameras are not an investment. Stock and bonds are a better option.

please give me some good tips were to invest in at the moment 

[jsiva]

huh, actually I made more money on my Leica M gear in the past two years than on any mutual fund or stock 

[Graham Welland]

For your information,

Alpa will enlarge all ALPA-12's tilt capacity down to some extreme wide-angle lenses. Please don't ask me for details for the time being (thanks for your understanding!). We are indeed working hard and together with some few external specialists on the further development of our ALPA 12 system. This is in the pipeline and should be announced officially and more detailed within a few months.

Important to notice: all existing ALPA 12 cameras will be integrated in all our projects. In other terms, this means that there is nobody owning any ALPA 12 now or buying one in the future who will not be able to use the new solutions. I think this is pretty much unique: even the first ALPA 12, an ALPA 12 WA with a 6x9 rollfilm back, (sold to Raymond Depardon/MAGNUM in 1998) is and will still be 100% integrated in our full system. It is important to keep this in mind when investing in a system, that your camera will hold its value not only in the near future, but for years after the investment.

Best regards,
Thierry

That is excellent news - potentially at least! There seems no reason to me why the lens mount for the Alpa could not accomodate a similar T/S mechanism as Cambo manage today, at least for lenses of 35mm or longer at least. Personally, to have T/S down to that lens would make all the difference for me.

[paratom]

I dont doubt that the wide angels for the tec cams deliver better IQ.
But I sometimes question "how much"?
I have had no image from my 35mm MF-lens on the S2 where I thought "damn-I should have taken such an image with a tech-cam and a Rodenstock HR lens".... Maybe you see it in direct comparison.
For me personally the biggest advantage/difference is the process when using a tech cam, when you take much more time and create a more composed image compared to a SLR where one might be tempted to shoot more spontanious. I found it feels totally different (slower) to shoot with a Tech cam and I enjoyed it.