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Author Topic: GX1 "Optional electronic viewfinder..."  (Read 14950 times)

OldRoy

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GX1 "Optional electronic viewfinder..."
« on: November 17, 2011, 11:07:59 am »

"Optional electronic viewfinder..."
Is it only me who regards this anachronistic "accessory" - or perhaps I should say the astonishing lack of an integral VF, whether electronic or optical - quite incomprehensible. Maybe there are people out there who actually like taking photographs whilst squinting at an LCD held at arms' length and others who appreciate the brilliant idea of separating the viewfinder from the camera. I think it's nuts though.
Takes all kinds, apparently.
Roy
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michael

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Re: GX1 "Optional electronic viewfinder..."
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2011, 11:27:14 am »

I think it comes down to a matter of pricing. Adding a decent EVF costs, and in this economy people are very cost conscious. Someone coming from a point and shoot, who has never used an optical or EVF doesn't yet know what they're missing, so manufacturers give them the option.

Panasonic has models with build-in EVFs, without, and now a new optional high res version for the GX1.

Michael
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JBerardi

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Re: GX1 "Optional electronic viewfinder..."
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2011, 12:21:14 pm »

Maybe there are people out there who actually like taking photographs whilst squinting at an LCD held at arms' length
Roy

Well, I'm one. They should just start calling the LCD a "digital ground glass", all you old guys would love it then...  ;)

Seriously, I shoot professionally with a SLR jammed into my face (think glasses smeared with sweat on a hot day. Lovely stuff) on a daily basis and, having just picked up a used GF2, I can't even tell you how nice it is to be able to do my casual shooting at arm's length. And actually the most surprising part is how well I can see the display even in full sun. Honestly, I never thought I'd like shooting this way, but I really do. I realize now that my distaste for point-and-shoots (anyone want to buy a S90) was always about the speed of operation, not the method of framing.

Anyway I'm now glad that Panasonic handles the viewfinder thing the way they do. I think the level of usability with an LCD-only camera is clearly high enough that there's no reason to make people pay for an included EVF. And if it means they can make the body smaller, all the better.
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RichDesmond

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Re: GX1 "Optional electronic viewfinder..."
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2011, 12:32:59 pm »

While I'm not a huge fan of the "hold out and shoot" mode, I think the detachable EVF is a good compromise. I'm looking at a mFT system as a capable alternative to a DSLR system, for use when lugging around all that stuff is inconvenient, and as a high quality P/S replacement. No EVF and the new 14-42 mounted and it's pocketable. Add a couple of other lenses and the EVF in a small bag and it's a DSLR replacement. Not perfect, but I think it will fill a large section of my needs pretty well
« Last Edit: November 20, 2011, 12:41:48 pm by RichDesmond »
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BJL

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compact system camera users: how often does the LCD fail you?
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2011, 02:56:31 pm »

I am contemplating getting a compact system camera(*) like the GX1 or Olympus E-PL3, and am mostly quite happy composing two-eyed on the rear LCD (I am not yet so long-sighted that I need to use the absurd unstable arms-length position, and can instead steady the camera with my upper arms braced against my body) but I fear the wash-out of the LCD by sunlight, which was the bane of my days using a fixed lens compact digital camera.

I am told that the new LCDs, with better coatings and such, suffer from this washout less often, but can actual users report their experiences? What range of light conditions can you handle with that "two-eyed composition tool" before you must resort to the peep-hole (or a black cloth over your head)? What about add-on screen shades? How much does the shade from a big hat help? I am not fashion conscious!

The GX1 and E-PL3 do have the fall-back option of buying an add-on EVF, but if I need to go back to an old-fashioned, one-eyed, peep-hole VF too much of the time, I would save money and bulk by getting something like a Panasonic G3 instead.


(*) By "system camera" I mean one with a select of interchangeable lenses, and by "compact" I mean the models with near-pocketable bodies, achieved by having no peep-hole viewfinder, either optical or electronic. The Sony NEX-7 _body_ is compact and with peep-hole EVF, but the NEX system zoom lenses ruin the compactness" part. And the price is out of line.
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AFairley

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Re: GX1 "Optional electronic viewfinder..."
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2011, 03:04:41 pm »

I am hoping that when the long-rumored "professional grade" m4/3 cameras are released they will have an integrated EVF a la Sony NEX-7, the target market for those bodies should justify the cost....
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BJL

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are there "pocketable" bodies with a _good_ built-in EVF? And tiltable EVFs
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2011, 04:14:25 pm »

I am hoping that when the long-rumored "professional grade" m4/3 cameras are released they will have an integrated EVF a la Sony NEX-7 ...
Some MFT cameras like the G3 and GH2 do have integrated EVF's, but at a cost in bulk and SLR-like shape that I would prefer to avoid. The Nikon V1 has an EVF in a mostly compact body, but the EVF eye-piece protrudes so far at the back that pocketability (body-only or with pancake prime lens) seems lost. Is that inevitable? Is it dictated by the need for the eye-piece to have good nose-screen clearance, or by the need for an EVF panel large enough to perform up to the expectations of people familiar with SLR VF's? The Sony NEX-7 has the most compact body of any of the EVF system cameras (with less backward VF protrusion than the Nikon V1 for example), but I do not know how well that EVF performs. Panasonic's original external EVF showed that EVF performance can be poor if corners are cut.

And I do like the idea of a tiltable EVF, which probably requires a substantial hump on top whether it is built-in or removable. If so, my ideal "professional grade" rig would have a good, tiltable, removable EVF, letting me dump the hump when not needed ... and then the GX1 and some Olympus m4/3 models looks good.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2011, 04:38:41 pm by BJL »
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NikoJorj

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Some MFT cameras like the G3 and GH2 do have integrated EVF's, but at a cost in bulk and SLR-like shape that I would prefer to avoid.
Still (much) less bulky than to attach a VF-2 or VF-3 on a Oly MFT body, though!
OTOH, these are tiltable (and I don't know of any current camera with an integrated tiltable EVF?).
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Nicolas from Grenoble
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uaiomex

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The Nikon V1 has been the best candidate to have it, but no. Neither it has a tiltable lcd screen, so I'll pass. Nex 7 still the best mirrorles option by far. The pro-grade m43 is taking forever. Their lose.

Eduardo



OTOH, these are tiltable (and I don't know of any current camera with an integrated tiltable EVF?).
« Last Edit: November 29, 2011, 11:15:21 am by uaiomex »
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BJL

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The pro-grade m43 is taking forever.
What is that you seek in a "pro grade" MFT body?. The term "pro" is very ambiguous. How do the G3, GX1 and GH2 fall short of what you want? Is is just having as many pixels as the NEX-7?
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uaiomex

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Re: are there "pocketable" bodies with a _good_ built-in EVF? And tiltable EVFs
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2011, 06:50:38 pm »

In my personal case concerning a mirrorless system this means a camera with a top notch EVF, articulated screen, all manual control, incorporated flash, built-in hot shoe and strong construction. For megapixeles, I'd rather be served better with 16 only, but 24 can do.
GX1 falls short. G3 and GH2 are verrry close to the perfect m43 but the shape resembling a mini dlsr is embarrassing! (imho).
I didn't coined the phrase "pro-grade m43". I just adopted it from somebody else that was talking about the features missing in the GX1 (if I recall well).
Best
Eduardo

What is that you seek in a "pro grade" MFT body?. The term "pro" is very ambiguous. How do the G3, GX1 and GH2 fall short of what you want? Is is just having as many pixels as the NEX-7?
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BJL

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Robust, and with lots of controls, good VF
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2011, 08:00:10 pm »

In my personal case ... a top notch EVF, articulated screen, all manual control, incorporated flash, built-in hot shoe and strong construction. For megapixeles, I'd rather be served better with 16 only ...
That's very close to my list; partly an update of what traditionally distinguished professional 35mm SLRs from amateur ones (it was not the sensors when the "sensor" was 35mm film). Since I am not bothered too much by the "retro" styling of the "G" and "GH" series, the issue of a rugged water resistant body is the main shortcoming I see there, and even that is less of a worry to an enthusiastic amateur like me. I also agree that 16MP is fine  --- more pixels would only help me in a secondary way, by sometimes allowing me to carry less bulky macro and telephoto lenses through the extra cropping latitude.

So uaiomex, do you see the NEX-7 meeting those "pro body" criteria?


To NikoJorg: I agree that _if_ I needed the EVF most of the time, the built-in option has a size advantage ... But part of my original question was whether people find that they can leave the EVF off in many situations, in which case the modular approach of the GX1 wins for compactness, at least some of the time.  Sadly, I have not got many answers to that question yet!
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uaiomex

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Re: Robust, and with lots of controls, good VF
« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2011, 01:39:08 am »

Hi, yes, the Nex7 meets my pro-grade criteria. I'm well into dslr system with all gadgets and gizmos. It is my everyday working system. For my personal work and documentary photography as a possible extension of my profession I'm waiting for a pro-grade mirrorless camera to meet my standards. As for today, Nex 7 seems to be number one choice as the affordable, nimble, stealthy camera with good IQ and featured enough to please a seasoned photographer. Of course my dream camera for this chores is the Leica M9, but this I can't afford, at least till documentary photography starts producing some revenues and I'm convinced that I want to do it in a long term basis.
Best
Eduardo

 
That's very close to my list; partly an update of what traditionally distinguished professional 35mm SLRs from amateur ones (it was not the sensors when the "sensor" was 35mm film). Since I am not bothered too much by the "retro" styling of the "G" and "GH" series, the issue of a rugged water resistant body is the main shortcoming I see there, and even that is less of a worry to an enthusiastic amateur like me. I also agree that 16MP is fine  --- more pixels would only help me in a secondary way, by sometimes allowing me to carry less bulky macro and telephoto lenses through the extra cropping latitude.

So uaiomex, do you see the NEX-7 meeting those "pro body" criteria?


To NikoJorg: I agree that _if_ I needed the EVF most of the time, the built-in option has a size advantage ... But part of my original question was whether people find that they can leave the EVF off in many situations, in which case the modular approach of the GX1 wins for compactness, at least some of the time.  Sadly, I have not got many answers to that question yet!
« Last Edit: November 30, 2011, 01:50:48 am by uaiomex »
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NikoJorj

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Re: VF or not
« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2011, 12:11:21 am »

But part of my original question was whether people find that they can leave the EVF off in many situations, in which case the modular approach of the GX1 wins for compactness, at least some of the time. 
On my EPL1, LCD screen is rather good and had I forgotten the EVF, yes, I could do without in many cases.
Though, having the extra definition, shooting stability and visibility in the sun makes me attach it permanently to the camera, for now.
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Nicolas from Grenoble
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mediumcool

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Re: GX1 "Optional electronic viewfinder..."
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2012, 07:27:25 pm »

I think it comes down to a matter of pricing. Adding a decent EVF costs, and in this economy people are very cost conscious. Someone coming from a point and shoot, who has never used an optical or EVF doesn't yet know what they're missing, so manufacturers give them the option.

Panasonic has models with build-in EVFs, without, and now a new optional high res version for the GX1.

Michael

Keeps the price and size down for the initial purchase, with the VF available as an upgrade at any time. BOBW!
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elf

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Re: GX1 "Optional electronic viewfinder..."
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2012, 09:56:10 pm »

And if you use a tripod, an EVF is totally unnecessary.
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mediumcool

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Re: GX1 "Optional electronic viewfinder..."
« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2012, 10:32:38 pm »

And if you use a tripod, an EVF is totally unnecessary.

Uh huh; that applies in bright sun, too?
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Ken Bennett

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Re: GX1 "Optional electronic viewfinder..."
« Reply #17 on: January 05, 2012, 03:17:08 pm »

Uh huh; that applies in bright sun, too?

Well, in that case I would use my Hoodman or similar loupe to view the large LCD screen. I already do this with my Canon DSLR cameras in Live View mode when shooting architecture, and it's no stretch to do it with my GF1 or GH2. Lots better than looking through the tiny EVF to judge the image. After all, if you're going to lug a tripod, a loupe is no big deal.
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mediumcool

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Re: GX1 "Optional electronic viewfinder..."
« Reply #18 on: January 05, 2012, 04:48:50 pm »

Well, in that case I would use my Hoodman or similar loupe to view the large LCD screen. I already do this with my Canon DSLR cameras in Live View mode when shooting architecture, and it's no stretch to do it with my GF1 or GH2. Lots better than looking through the tiny EVF to judge the image. After all, if you're going to lug a tripod, a loupe is no big deal.

So something else to buy and carry?
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Ken Bennett

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Re: GX1 "Optional electronic viewfinder..."
« Reply #19 on: January 05, 2012, 09:31:41 pm »

So something else to buy and carry?

Oh please. If you're shooting on a tripod, you're already buying and carrying something much larger and more expensive than a Hoodman loupe by several orders of magnitude.
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