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Author Topic: what's wrong with Olympus?  (Read 12144 times)

allegretto

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what's wrong with Olympus?
« on: November 17, 2011, 08:56:39 am »

It seems that Michael reviews just about every serious equipment manufacturer. However, there appears to be a notable lack of Olympus reviews. There are many Panasonic reviews (which appears to be Olympus' closest market niche competitor). Heck there are Ricoh reviews.

Any reason for this?
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degrub

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Re: what's wrong with Olympus?
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2011, 01:50:18 pm »

Other than Michael reviews what is of interest to him ?  ;)
This site, IMO, is more about doing photography than the equipment. There are plenty of sites doing extensive equipment reviews. The equipment is just the means to the end.

Frank
« Last Edit: November 17, 2011, 01:51:49 pm by degrub »
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michael

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Re: what's wrong with Olympus?
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2011, 02:11:49 pm »

Olympus XZ-1 Field Report

Olympus E-P2 – a field review

Most recently. Check under the "O"s in the Product Review Index for earlier ones.

Michael

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ejmartin

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Re: what's wrong with Olympus?
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2011, 02:49:18 pm »

Ah, darn.  I was expecting a juicy story about corporate malfeasance...   ::)
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emil

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Re: what's wrong with Olympus?
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2011, 06:55:05 am »

Ah, darn.  I was expecting a juicy story about corporate malfeasance...   ::)

hehe - At the moment buying an Olympus is only slightly better than buying a new Saab.  Great product that might outlast the company!!
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feppe

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Re: what's wrong with Olympus?
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2011, 03:15:56 pm »

hehe - At the moment buying an Olympus is only slightly better than buying a new Saab.  Great product that might outlast the company!!

Quick, everyone, start selling your Oly gear on eBay. Please start with MFT lenses ;)

allegretto

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Re: what's wrong with Olympus?
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2011, 01:35:22 pm »

Yes, I picked up an E-P3 for my wife...

sweet little beast! Put that 24 mm 1.4 Leica/Panny lens on there and you have quite a nice picture machine.

even she can see the pics are better than her old Canon.
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luxborealis

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Re: what's wrong with Olympus?
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2011, 08:48:33 pm »

Easy - Olympus has hit the IQ wall.

I started with an E-1 then graduated to an E-30. At the time, I was living overseas and doing a lot of travelling so I chose Olympus digital because I had a focal length range from 24mm to 400mm at f/3.5 max in two excellent zoom lenses. For someone like me who also enjoys canoeing, backpacking, etc. it has been an ideal combination.

I am making (and regularly selling) fine art prints of natural landscapes made with Olympus equipment up to 17" on an Epson Pro 3880. They produce beautiful prints that have often been complimented for their "watercolour-like" beauty which is not an insult to me as a photographer, but rather an observation of the way Olympus sensors render tones and detail.

However, I also recognize that to do the work I am more used to, along the lines of my old Pentax 67 and 4x5 Wood Field Camera, Olympus is far from mark. The 4:3s sensor just isn't large enough to pack in enough pixels to extract the level of detail nature photographers and landscape artists are looking for. Resolution is not the culprit as much as noise is. It's unavoidable. It's like people - the more people you cram into a smaller area, the more noise they are going to make!

I've hit the wall with Olympus and with the E-5 still at 12MP (ideal for a great many applications up to a double-page spread), it seems Olympus has also hit the wall in sensor design. A shame, really, as their glass is absolutely fabulous.
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feppe

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Re: what's wrong with Olympus?
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2011, 04:41:09 am »

I've hit the wall with Olympus and with the E-5 still at 12MP (ideal for a great many applications up to a double-page spread), it seems Olympus has also hit the wall in sensor design. A shame, really, as their glass is absolutely fabulous.

Olympus has used the same Panasonic sensors for all of the MFT cameras to date, so that's no surprise. Hopefully they'll get the newer sensors from Panny or elsewhere for the next gen cameras - if they even manage to release them given the current state of the company.

BJL

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Sensors of the same size and pixel count, but are they all the same?
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2011, 11:23:26 pm »

Olympus has used the same Panasonic sensors for all of the MFT cameras to date ...
Maybe this is pedantic, but all we know is that the sensors in all Olympus m4/3 cameras so far have all been of the same size and shape and with the same pixel count, so the same pixel size, but Olympus has in some cases said that newer models have new, different sensors, and there have been improvements in some IQ test results.

There is a tendency to assume that a sensor of the same format is only really a new design if it has a different pixel size (almost always smaller) and to dismiss claims of a new sensor of equal pixel count as really being just about improved processing or support circuitry or micro-lenses or such. But this is strange, since there are also frequent pleas for the camera industry to give us new sensors that use technological improvements to improve the performance of same-sized pixels instead of chasing increased pixel count!

"DIYD,DIYD"
« Last Edit: December 03, 2011, 11:40:01 pm by BJL »
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luxborealis

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Re: what's wrong with Olympus?
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2011, 07:31:09 am »

Of course newer sensors are an improvement over older sensors, even at the same pixel pitch. The E-5's sensor is  better than the E-3/E-30 sensor BUT the difference is incremental. To create larger prints, you need more megapixels. Going from 12MP to 16MP (new Panasonic sensor) is also incremental with only 33% more pixels. This is why I believe Olympus has hit the wall with the 4:3s sensor. We all new it was coming, it was just a matter of time. The R&D required for a 4:3s sensor to perform like a FF sensor is monumental. For millions of users who don't produce and sell large (24" +) prints with landscape-level detail, the 4:3s sensor is great, the lenses are fabulous, so Olympus is ideal.
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feppe

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Re: Sensors of the same size and pixel count, but are they all the same?
« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2011, 08:24:52 am »

Maybe this is pedantic, but all we know is that the sensors in all Olympus m4/3 cameras so far have all been of the same size and shape and with the same pixel count, so the same pixel size, but Olympus has in some cases said that newer models have new, different sensors, and there have been improvements in some IQ test results.

No, there hasn't. Olympus's claims of better IQ hold true for JPEGs only, but not for RAWs. Perhaps there are some minor changes in the sensor over the years, but looking at the DxO graphs they are similar - possibly identical when adjusted for measurement errors.

BJL

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Re: what's wrong with Olympus?
« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2011, 09:17:21 pm »

No, there hasn't. Olympus's claims of better IQ hold true for JPEGs only, but not for RAWs.

To feppe:
    thanks for the link. It makes me think that my next camera will be something like the Panasonic GX1 rather than an Olympus Pen (which is a bit sad, because an Olympus Pen body would provide IS for my 4/3 SLR lenses, and in-cameras JPEG seems better with Olympus than Panasonic).  Even in per-pixel comparisons ("screen" at DxO) the sensors in recent Panasonic models seem to perform better. And there are significant improvements over generations.

To luxborealis:
    I do not understand why you keep talking about _Olympus_ hitting a wall with sensors when it is Panasonic that makes all the Four Thirds sensors, and Panasonic continues to make significant improvements in its recent sensors, improving on the ones used by Olympus in resolution, noise levels, dynamic range, and so on. It seems to me that all formats from 4/3" to 35mm (and now the 1" format of Nikon's One system) continue to make good progress. The question of "hitting the wall" is a completely different issue than the unsurprising fact that far larger and more expensive sensors can give better image quality (when paired with good enough lenses.)
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feppe

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Re: what's wrong with Olympus?
« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2011, 01:44:27 pm »

To feppe:
    thanks for the link. It makes me think that my next camera will be something like the Panasonic GX1 rather than an Olympus Pen (which is a bit sad, because an Olympus Pen body would provide IS for my 4/3 SLR lenses, and in-cameras JPEG seems better with Olympus than Panasonic).  Even in per-pixel comparisons ("screen" at DxO) the sensors in recent Panasonic models seem to perform better. And there are significant improvements over generations.

I've been holding off upgrading my E-PL1 for this very reason. The improvements of the later Oly cameras are not enough to me, so I'd rather spend the money on glass. I won't go to Panasonic due to lack of IBIS, unless Oly goes out of business.

OTOH, you can get Pens for a very nice price, and they are very good cameras. But if you want the latest in sensor tech along with some new bells and whistles, and don't mind losing IBIS, Panasonic is the only choice. I'm not holding my breath for Olympus releasing a new camera any time soon given their financial issues.

BJL

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Re: what's wrong with Olympus? Or with IBIS?
« Reply #14 on: December 05, 2011, 07:57:52 pm »

I have another fear for the survival of IBIS: it seems less desirable for video than lens-stabilization (note Sony moving away from IBIS in the NEX system), and video has become such a significant selling point that mirror-less systems probably have to provide IS that works well with video. If this video influence drives other trends like power zoom, I just hope that the implementation works welll for us one-frame-at-a-time photographers too!
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feppe

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Re: what's wrong with Olympus? Or with IBIS?
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2011, 01:06:28 pm »

I have another fear for the survival of IBIS: it seems less desirable for video than lens-stabilization (note Sony moving away from IBIS in the NEX system), and video has become such a significant selling point that mirror-less systems probably have to provide IS that works well with video. If this video influence drives other trends like power zoom, I just hope that the implementation works welll for us one-frame-at-a-time photographers too!

Don't many video cameras have IBIS? Maybe it's expensive or technologically challenging in (hybrid) video cameras.

michael

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Re: what's wrong with Olympus?
« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2011, 01:13:44 pm »

Almost all camcorders have lens-based stabilization. Off hand I can't think of one that has IBIS.

The problem is heat. Moving a large sensor continuously for stabilization (or a small one for that matter) generates heat, and this sometimes causes cameras that use IBIS to shut down after some time of continuous shooting with it on. It's fine for stills, but not as good for video.

Michael
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feppe

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Re: what's wrong with Olympus?
« Reply #17 on: December 06, 2011, 01:38:56 pm »

Almost all camcorders have lens-based stabilization. Off hand I can't think of one that has IBIS.

The problem is heat. Moving a large sensor continuously for stabilization (or a small one for that matter) generates heat, and this sometimes causes cameras that use IBIS to shut down after some time of continuous shooting with it on. It's fine for stills, but not as good for video.

Thanks for the correction and explanation!
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