Sandy Bridge-E and X79 Mainboards

[Farmer]

Steve - other thread in this section about scratch disks.  As you've used the Revos a bit - thoughts on using a smaller one (perhaps 80GB to keep price down) for scratch disk compared to RAIDing a few regular (or SSD) drives?

[Steve Weldon]

Steve - other thread in this section about scratch disks.  As you've used the Revos a bit - thoughts on using a smaller one (perhaps 80GB to keep price down) for scratch disk compared to RAIDing a few regular (or SSD) drives?

This really depends on the size of your work, RAM, machine configuration, desired speed, and available space on other fast storage devices.

For instance, if you're just processing 2-3 images at a time, say limited to 3-4 layers each, and you have 16gb of RAM and an extra 30gb on your system SSD.. most people would be very happy with the results.

If you're rendering a lot of video and need a larger scratch disk, then a dedicated SSD becomes practical.

I'm on record saying I'll be spoiling myself and using a Revo 1tb hybrid for my LR indexes and previews.. and I'll also put my scratch disk on the same drive.  The hybrid is perfect for LR where you'll be accessing the same galleries/collections as you work, and a scratch disk which is active.

Others will be happy to move their scratch disks to an archive disk rarely used.  You don't really need a separate disk, just a disk not being used in the course of your normal work flow.  Of if it is used, if it's very fast such as a fast SSD it will be fine.

I didn't respond to that thread because it seemed like they were looking for a one size fits all answer.. and while I can give you a generic answer if money and PCIe slots are unlimited, for most of us they are, and the answer depends on your machine configuration, your work flow, RAM, and other storage devices..

It's one of those areas where you have to think your way through it based on your individual factors.

I'll bet John has some good thoughts on this too.

[Farmer]

Thanks, Steve.  Totally understand the issue with "one size fits all".  I guess I was wondering about performance of that style of access and the real world speed benefits over, say, multiple HDDs in RAID.  To me, unless there's a technical reason not to use a Revo, then it's a good device for this sort of thing and would outperform a traditional HDD RAID (particularly if using software/mainboard RAID) and probably at a similar or even better price point given only one device would be needed.

[Steve Weldon]

Thanks, Steve.  Totally understand the issue with "one size fits all".  I guess I was wondering about performance of that style of access and the real world speed benefits over, say, multiple HDDs in RAID.  To me, unless there's a technical reason not to use a Revo, then it's a good device for this sort of thing and would outperform a traditional HDD RAID (particularly if using software/mainboard RAID) and probably at a similar or even better price point given only one device would be needed.

That's the thing "real world difference" depends on work flow.  Sure, a RAID is going to be faster than a stand alone like HDD, but will the work flow allow the user to realize the difference.    And then consider, most people I've seen doing these types of RAID's with HDD's are using on board (on motherboard) RAID controllers which aren't great performers to begin with and second, they can take a lot off the top of CPU/RAM performance to run one.  I'm sure there are some high end HBA's when paired with really fast hard drives like Raptors will outperform some of the lower end SSD's when used as a cache.  But in today, February 2012, you'd have to be crazy to want to put a 4 HDD RAID array in your box and suffer the heat, noise, and power draw increases for a tiny bit of performance increase when you can get a mid-higher end SSD which will outperform it.  And the Revo changes the game completely.  Personally I think only the highest end workstations with a heavy video rendering work flow justifies a standalone Revo as a scratch.

Keep in mind that you can easily dual task an SSD.  For instance, I stated that I was going to get a 1tb hybrid Revo for my LR indexes/thumbnails.  It's a 1tb drive, of which 400-500gb will be used for that purpose.  I can easily set aside 100gb of very fast storage for my scratch disc and I'm not at all concerned about performance because I won't be accessing both taskings at the same time because of my work flow.  This is what I mean when I saw work flow is crucial to this decision.

On the easy end of the scale, there are many mid-grade SSD's out there for under $150.. some under $100.. that just blow the doors off a mechanical hard drive and even 2 HDD's RAID's.  Most people who would blink at $150 don't have a professional video work flow which would require more than that.   And for the guy doing 2-3 still images at a time and who already has a system SSD with some space.. don't hesitate to assign that space to a scratch disk with a second scratch going to your next best drive.  

When you sit down with someone and they tell you budget is an issue, and they want the most bang for their buck, I ask them to detail their standard work flow.  Not the high draw work flow they occasionally task.. but the work flow they use the majority of the time.  Even for professionals you'd be surprised with how little they really require in the way of computer resources.  Most are just caught up in the industry and forum hype and somehow think they need what some guy with more money than sense is bragging about.  Not to mention all the people out there buying high-end computer systems not because they need them, but because they don't really know what they need and they try to cover all their bases by buying the top gear.

Many look at building their own systems as a way to save money, why give it to the IT guy when he's just going to make money off you.  But this is like photography workshops, someone who understands photography and knows how to teach, is going to give you great value for your workshop dollar.  Same with IT.  An IT guy who's doing his job will very often save you money overall by matching your work flow/needs with the right equipment.. and you usually even end up with a better performing if not more expensive system because it's set up properly.   You can't go around tilting windmills on every forum you see with some guy making claims you know aren't complete or accurate.. you just have to let the majority of those go.

[Farmer]

Great commentary again, Steve - thanks for your time.  I hope this helps the guys on the Scratch disk thread, too.

[Steve Weldon]

Great commentary again, Steve - thanks for your time.  I hope this helps the guys on the Scratch disk thread, too.

When you consider the Revo's are essentially RAID 0 arrays (with an on board controller), all I'm really saying is what benefit you derive from certain hardware configurations is dependent on your work flow/load.  Nothing new.  

But, I do caution those considering a HDD RAID using a motherboard based RAID controller for the purpose of a scratch disk to take a good look at what SSD's are available and compare their performance.  It should be obvious a low power draw cool running single 2.5 inch SSD is way preferable to an equal or lower performance 4-8 HDD array with all it's power and heat dissipating requirements in addition to a greater noise level.

There are a ton of choices, from RAID arrays made of 40-60gb inexpensive SSD's, to the same with larger capacity faster SSD's, to the Revo's.. Single SSD or HDD solutions.. all kinds of choices.  Know your requirements and your work flow, and then choose wisely.

I wish you all luck with this.