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Author Topic: Anyone using Epson 7900 without a RIP?  (Read 5288 times)

JohnAONeill

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Anyone using Epson 7900 without a RIP?
« on: November 04, 2011, 10:21:30 am »

Hi guys

I have been using an Epson 9800 printer for many years along with Colorbyte's Imageprint RIP V6. I am looking at getting an Epson 9700 printer as I no longer do large prints and could use the extra floor space! I am wondering has anyone been using the 9700 printer without a RIP and if so are there issues with color management and neutral B&W printing? I don't have the funds right now to purchase another Imageprint License and I am wondering if it's even necessary with the new printer technology? I would particularly like to hear from photographers that are familiar with Imageprint, but find this printer good enough without Imageprint. Otherwise any information from users would be very helpful.

Aside; I may end up selling my current Imageprint License (V6) for 9600/9800 Printers if anyone would like to make an offer? This would also entitle you a 50% discount if you upgrade to the latest version for the current 44" printers.

Best regards
John
« Last Edit: November 12, 2011, 08:28:00 pm by JohnAONeill »
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Scott Martin

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Re: Anyone using Epson 9700 without a RIP?
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2011, 10:49:25 am »

Very familiar with Imageprint and the 7900 and think you'll love it without the RIP.
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Scott Martin
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JohnAONeill

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Re: Anyone using Epson 9700 without a RIP?
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2011, 07:41:07 am »

Scott,
Thanks for the input. How do things work out when printing multiple images on the page? Does the epson driver support this? Also is it possible to softproof when working in B&W?

Regards
John
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Scott Martin

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Re: Anyone using Epson 9700 without a RIP?
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2011, 07:50:38 am »

How do things work out when printing multiple images on the page? Does the epson driver support this?

The driver itself doesn't support nesting. A lot of photographers using Lightroom, ImageNest or Qimage for nesting and layout purposes.

Also is it possible to softproof when working in B&W?

While you get to see the toning effects on a generic image in the driver in ABW mode, you can't see the effects on your own image at the application level. Now, I will say that advanced users create color profiles of their ABW printing process so that they can soft proof in Photoshop. Making these ABW profiles a somewhat rare practice but if you would really benefit from soft proofing in PS it's the way to go.
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Scott Martin
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Anyone using Epson 9700 without a RIP?
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2011, 08:12:45 am »

While you get to see the toning effects on a generic image in the driver in ABW mode, you can't see the effects on your own image at the application level. Now, I will say that advanced users create color profiles of their ABW printing process so that they can soft proof in Photoshop. Making these ABW profiles a somewhat rare practice but if you would really benefit from soft proofing in PS it's the way to go.
Scott, this now only works for users on Windows, the new MacOS doesn not permit using the Epson ABW driver with an assigned profile.  See:  http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=58778.0  for a recent thread on this topic.  You are correct that soft proofing a B/W print using ABW can only be done if you have the relevant profile but only on Windows.
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Scott Martin

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Re: Anyone using Epson 9700 without a RIP?
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2011, 08:48:49 am »

Alan, everything that I've described is perfectly correct. One can make ABW profiles and use them for soft proofing under Lion just fine. I'm doing it here today.

Printing with an ABW profile is another matter. The new driver won't allow us to select "Photoshop Manages Color" like we used to enjoy so a manual profile conversion in PS would be required if you want to print with the profile.

Wither you're printing with the profile or not you can use the profile for soft proofing and can simulate output with or without it.
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Scott Martin
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Anyone using Epson 9700 without a RIP?
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2011, 11:36:02 am »

Alan, everything that I've described is perfectly correct. One can make ABW profiles and use them for soft proofing under Lion just fine. I'm doing it here today.

Printing with an ABW profile is another matter. The new driver won't allow us to select "Photoshop Manages Color" like we used to enjoy so a manual profile conversion in PS would be required if you want to print with the profile.

Wither you're printing with the profile or not you can use the profile for soft proofing and can simulate output with or without it.
Scott, correct but you are then subject to the vagaries of the ABW driver which in my and others testing is not quite linear.  This will lead to some measurable (via a spectro) differences in the print vs the soft proof but whether they are visually different would of course depend on the print and the viewer.  Whether Epson have modified the driver to improve its linearity is not known and I have not had an opportunity to measure a 21 step gray wedge with the new Win 6.60 driver.  I do know that the old driver had a pronounced curvature with the biggest deviation at the 50% gray.

I'm a little confused by your final statement (which I guess is more MacOS oriented), what do you meand by a "manual profile conversion in PS" (it may be that things are not sinking in this AM).

BTW, thanks for your media selection image; I've made good use of it in determining optimal print driver settings prior to profiling!
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Scott Martin

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Re: Anyone using Epson 9700 without a RIP?
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2011, 03:06:25 pm »

Scott, correct but you are then subject to the vagaries of the ABW driver which in my and others testing is not quite linear. 

You can use soft proofing to simulate that 'non-linear' process when you're printing without the profile. Just check the "Preserve Numbers" when creating a Customized Proof Condition.

I'm a little confused by your final statement (which I guess is more MacOS oriented), what do you meand by a "manual profile conversion in PS" .

Edit>Convert to Profile etc. Don't you hate all these workarounds? Seems like things are getting harder and harder aren't they? I keep a copy of CS3 around just for the "No Color Management" printing option - I just can let myself can't let go of that just yet.

BTW, thanks for your media selection image; I've made good use of it in determining optimal print driver settings prior to profiling!

Thanks for saying so!
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Scott Martin
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JohnAONeill

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Re: Anyone using Epson 9700 without a RIP?
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2011, 06:51:55 pm »

Scot, Alan, thanks for your input. Can you compare black &white output on epson driver to Imageprint? Have Epson addressed the issues with metamerism, bronzing etc.

Regards
John
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tastar

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Re: Anyone using Epson 9700 without a RIP?
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2011, 07:17:38 pm »

I'm not sure if I'm missing something, but the Epson Stylus Pro 9700 is a 4 color printer, designed for printing technical drawings (it also does a great job with film for silk screening). We haven't compared gamuts, but with 1 black (either photo or matte) vs. 3 for the 9800 (black, light black, light light black), I can't imagine that you would get the same black and white tonal range. And, with cyan, magenta and yellow (without their light equivalents), I would guess the same would apply to color printing. Re. saving space, the 9700 is much larger than a 9800 - same frame as a 9900 or 9890, so you won't be saving space either. With or without a RIP, it will more than likely be a step down from the 9800 re. print quality. If you transposed the 9 and 7, you can disregard my print quality comments. Re. size, a 7900 takes about the same amount of space as a 9800.

Tony
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JohnAONeill

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Re: Anyone using Epson 7900 without a RIP?
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2011, 08:26:26 pm »

Tony

I stand corrected. I should have said 7900 and not 9700  ::) The 7900 is a 24" roll size. Are you saying this takes up as much space as the 9800??

Can we start again now :-)

Cheers
John
« Last Edit: November 12, 2011, 08:32:01 pm by JohnAONeill »
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tastar

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Re: Anyone using Epson 7900 without a RIP?
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2011, 10:04:29 am »


The 7900 is a 24" roll size. Are you saying this takes up as much space as the 9800??


9800 dimensions: 67"(W) x 47"(H) x 26.7"(D)
7800 dimensions: 46.3"(W) x 46.5"(H) x 29.3"(D)
7900 dimensions: 54" (W) x 48" (H) x 27" (D)

So, the 7900 is smaller, but not as small as a 7800 vs. the 9800 - and it looks really large compared to the 78/98 generation - definitely bulked up.

Tony
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