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Author Topic: Sinar P/P2/X Movements With Digital  (Read 3510 times)

RobertJ

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Sinar P/P2/X Movements With Digital
« on: November 01, 2011, 09:00:22 pm »

Okay, this is gonna to sound stupid I think, but I just need a quick explanation:

How do the "asymmetric" movements on the P/P2/X cameras affect the movements when using a digital back that is mounted in the center of a board that is mounted on the rear standard (like a Kapture Group live video digital back adapter)?  

Will tilts and swings on the front standard change the composition with a digital back mounted in the center of the rear standard?

Is there a reason why Sinar made a digital rear standard carrier to place the digital back in a specific location, or is this not necessary?
« Last Edit: November 01, 2011, 09:02:18 pm by T-1000 »
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TH_Alpa

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Re: Sinar P/P2/X Movements With Digital
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2011, 11:25:18 am »

How do the "asymmetric" movements on the P/P2/X cameras affect the movements when using a digital back that is mounted in the center of a board that is mounted on the rear standard (like a Kapture Group live video digital back adapter)?
 
In this cases the tilt and swing axis are out of the sensor plane, in all regards. Tilt and Swing, resp. sharpness will be affected, since when one wants to use these assymetrial axis to set a precise sharpness plane, it needs to select points lying on these axis (a point on H for horizontal tilt or a point on V for vertical swing) AND in the image (sensor) plane, which would be impossible in this case.

Will tilts and swings on the front standard change the composition with a digital back mounted in the center of the rear standard?

It theoretically changes the view point, since the lens is moved when one moves the front standard, and the tilt and swing axis do not lie in the optical center of the lens. At the same time, when moving the lens by a tilt or a swing, the IC is moved around the sensor plane. Composition is changed.


Is there a reason why Sinar made a digital rear standard carrier to place the digital back in a specific location, or is this not necessary?
Yes, of course, there is a reason and it is necessary, to have the tilt and swing axis being what they should be, assymetrical and IN the image(sensor) plane.

Thierry
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RobertJ

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Re: Sinar P/P2/X Movements With Digital
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2011, 11:21:36 pm »

Thanks, I knew you would answer Thierry.

What do people who use the Sinar P2/X with a digital back do to make the movements in the sensor plane?  The live view adapters and sliding back adapters don't do anything special other than letting you mount a back on the rear standard in the center, or am I mistaken? 

Can you do some shift/rise/fall to adjust to the sensor?
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TH_Alpa

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Re: Sinar P/P2/X Movements With Digital
« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2011, 05:58:09 am »

Thanks, I knew you would answer Thierry.
You're welcome.


What do people who use the Sinar P2/X with a digital back do to make the movements in the sensor plane?  The live view adapters and sliding back adapters don't do anything special other than letting you mount a back on the rear standard in the center, or am I mistaken?

The "Carrier Frame Wide" is the adapter to set the digital back in the right place, in a way that the sensor lies so that the 2 H & V axis are in the sensor plane when using the tilt and swing knobs with the rear standard, and as well that these 2 axis are not in the centre of the sensor plane, but in an asymetrical way, at the bottom for the H axis and right side for the V axis. The sliding back adapter does exactly the same as the carrier frame, making sure that the 2 axis are in the sensor plane and in an asymetrical position.
Have a look here:

Sinar p2_manual.pdf

Can you do some shift/rise/fall to adjust to the sensor?
No, this doesn't change anything, it will not move the position of the 2 axis in respect of the sensor plane, since when shifting both the sensor and the axis are moved at the same time.

Best
Thierry
« Last Edit: November 04, 2011, 06:06:30 am by TH_Alpa »
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Dick Roadnight

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Re: Sinar P/P2/X Movements With Digital
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2011, 06:06:29 am »

Hi, Thierry...

Do you know if the CAPCam is clever enough to put the axis where you want it, and to compensate when a lens cannot be mounted with the nodal point on the tilt axis?

¿Focus on any subject element, set the axis at that point, focus on anything else anywhere, set the axis to go through those two points (at any angle) and then rotate about that axis to get the plane of sharpest focus to include a third subject element, all remotely e.g. on my 10m tripod?

Yes, of course, there is a reason and it is necessary, to have the tilt and swing axis being what they should be, assymetrical and IN the image(sensor) plane.

Thierry

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TH_Alpa

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Re: Sinar P/P2/X Movements With Digital
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2011, 10:39:08 am »

hi Dick,

No, it don't know at this stage, but would imagine that this is a small matter to implement if not yet. The Sinar e, 20 years ago could already then somehow compensate this.

Best regards
Thierry.


Hi, Thierry...

Do you know if the CAPCam is clever enough to put the axis where you want it, and to compensate when a lens cannot be mounted with the nodal point on the tilt axis?

¿Focus on any subject element, set the axis at that point, focus on anything else anywhere, set the axis to go through those two points (at any angle) and then rotate about that axis to get the plane of sharpest focus to include a third subject element, all remotely e.g. on my 10m tripod?

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PdF

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Re: Sinar P/P2/X Movements With Digital
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2011, 03:41:51 pm »

Thanks, I knew you would answer Thierry.

What do people who use the Sinar P2/X with a digital back do to make the movements in the sensor plane?  The live view adapters and sliding back adapters don't do anything special other than letting you mount a back on the rear standard in the center, or am I mistaken? 

Can you do some shift/rise/fall to adjust to the sensor?

There is no major problem for the use of digital backs (preferably on a Sinar P or P2), preferably with a wide carrier frame, which ensures good geometry for the shift. Girder, it protects the sensor from contact with the back of the lens.

On demand, the CaptureShop system offers shift lines on the live video image. I personally never use it. Once we know a little all his material is actually very simple, especially with the assistance of live video and the focus mode.

The most important benefit is most common settings spirit levels on the camera, or if not in the pocket of the photographer!

Also note that the "prehistoric" Sinar P2 system also enables the use of a revolving adapter. No one has done better since then.

PdF
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PdF
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