Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Hartblei lens collar/mount for Canon TSE lenses  (Read 11895 times)

Peter Barnes

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 36
    • Peter Barnes photographer
Hartblei lens collar/mount for Canon TSE lenses
« on: October 29, 2011, 10:06:36 pm »

Has anyone had experience with, or know of a review of the Hartblei collar mount for Canon TSE lenses?  http://www.hartblei.de/en/canon-tse-collar.htm
Logged
Peter Barnes

Kirk Gittings

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1561
    • http://www.KirkGittings.com
Re: Hartblei lens collar/mount for Canon TSE lenses
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2011, 10:42:45 pm »

Here is the main issue. Why do you need it? I have made a large part of my income daily shooting architecture and interiors with flat stitches from Cannon T/S lenses a Canon 5dII and PS CS5 and never ever worry about parallax problems.
Logged
Thanks,
Kirk Gittings

Peter Barnes

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 36
    • Peter Barnes photographer
Re: Hartblei lens collar/mount for Canon TSE lenses
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2011, 12:13:49 am »

Here is the main issue. Why do you need it? I have made a large part of my income daily shooting architecture and interiors with flat stitches from Cannon T/S lenses a Canon 5dII and PS CS5 and never ever worry about parallax problems.

Thanks Kirk, that's good to know.  I have been looking for an L bracket for my 5DII that would work with my Manfrotto geared head and allow quick changes from horizontal to vertical formats without needing to move the tripod. But the only ones I can find use an Arca type mount I think, and don't seem to be compatible with the Manfrotto heads.  Then i saw this, which could be easily mounted to my head, allows easy vertical to horizontal change, causes no problems with obstruction of camera ports, and enables flat stitches in both horizontal and vertical orientation. 

Any suggestions for alternatives would be appreciated.
Logged
Peter Barnes

torger

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3267
Re: Hartblei lens collar/mount for Canon TSE lenses
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2011, 04:08:59 am »

Perhaps this discussion applies?

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/840150

About getting an arca swiss qr plate to a manfrotto geared head.

http://hejnarphoto.blogspot.com/2011/04/manfrotto-405410-adapter-for-arca-swiss.html
« Last Edit: October 30, 2011, 04:14:37 am by torger »
Logged

adammork

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 171
Re: Hartblei lens collar/mount for Canon TSE lenses
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2011, 05:27:01 am »

Here is the main issue. Why do you need it? I have made a large part of my income daily shooting architecture and interiors with flat stitches from Cannon T/S lenses a Canon 5dII and PS CS5 and never ever worry about parallax problems.

When not using my alpa's I use the same setup as you Kirk, also on a daily basis - and I have parallex problems from time to time, when not moving the camera to compensate for the lens movement.

So in my opinion it could be needed....

/adam
Logged

uaiomex

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1211
    • http://www.eduardocervantes.com
Re: Hartblei lens collar/mount for Canon TSE lenses
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2011, 07:50:18 pm »

In my opinion, CS5 does a superb job stitching and merging. The success of the stitch depends on the elements that form the entire picture. Sometimes CS5 renders a perfect stitch when everything "helped". In other pictures, what seems to be a perfect stitch, is not. If you look closer at 200% is possible you will find minute errors. Errors are more prone to appear in interior pictures with intrinsic lines. One of the worst scenarios is an interior with shape designs on the floor in combination with ceilings with beams not shot "squarely". I've found that CS5 fails every time under these circumstances.

I also noticed that every time you feed the same pictures to Photomerge, the program does a slightly different cut-off tiling. I don't know why. Maybe that's what software engineers call fuzzy logic. ;D

In my case, if I want to make sure I'll end with a perfect stitch, I use my slider. If I was too lazy to set it up, in a hurry or left it home, I always check at 200 or 300% after using Photomerge. If I find errors, well, it's time for some cloning and/or some copy&paste + move/rotate. At times, it can be really tedious. Every now and then, I just press the "Ignore Key".

I made my "flat-stitch slide ruler" out of a discarded Minolta Close-Up bellows for almost nothing. I'd love to have the Hartblei Collar for the convenience and speed but it is too pricy for me.

Eduardo

P.S. Or perhaps Kirk, you should share your workflow. :D
  
Here is the main issue. Why do you need it? I have made a large part of my income daily shooting architecture and interiors with flat stitches from Cannon T/S lenses a Canon 5dII and PS CS5 and never ever worry about parallax problems.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2011, 08:17:22 pm by uaiomex »
Logged

Peter Barnes

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 36
    • Peter Barnes photographer
Re: Hartblei lens collar/mount for Canon TSE lenses
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2011, 07:05:21 am »

Thanks Torger.  Eduardo, do you have a photo of your slider?
Logged
Peter Barnes

uaiomex

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1211
    • http://www.eduardocervantes.com
Re: Hartblei lens collar/mount for Canon TSE lenses
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2011, 03:24:51 pm »

Peter, I don't right now. I'll posted later (soon).
Eduardo

Thanks Torger.  Eduardo, do you have a photo of your slider?
Logged

Peter Barnes

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 36
    • Peter Barnes photographer
Re: Hartblei lens collar/mount for Canon TSE lenses
« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2011, 11:14:01 pm »

Thanks to Torger's links I have arrived here:
http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&prev=/search%3Fq%3DZ%25C3%25B6rkend%25C3%25B6rfer%2Btse%2Bcanon%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dsafari%26tbo%3Dd%26prmd%3Divns&rurl=translate.google.com.au&sl=de&twu=1&u=http://www.photoscala.de/Artikel/Neue-Adapter-von-Zoerk&usg=ALkJrhhEk04q890uGtXSSV9G03_wWLBBqA

I hope this link works - it is Google translate of a German language page.  This will take you to the original page: http://www.photoscala.de/Artikel/Neue-Adapter-von-Zoerk&usg=ALkJrhhEk04q890uGtXSSV9G03_wWLBBqA

I own a Zorkendorfer Shift Adapter which I use to mount Pentax 645 lenses to my 5D - gives me shift, lens mounting to the tripod and rotation of the body around the fixed lens when I want it.  I would happily buy more from Mr Zorkendorfer, but what do people think of mounting a Canon TSE lens this way?

Does anyone know any more about this adapter?
Logged
Peter Barnes

torger

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3267
Re: Hartblei lens collar/mount for Canon TSE lenses
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2011, 05:21:47 am »

I own a Zorkendorfer Shift Adapter which I use to mount Pentax 645 lenses to my 5D - gives me shift, lens mounting to the tripod and rotation of the body around the fixed lens when I want it.  I would happily buy more from Mr Zorkendorfer, but what do people think of mounting a Canon TSE lens this way?

Looks interesting. However, it does seem like the focus ring becomes a bit cumbersome to operate, and you don't really see the distance scale (not too important though). It almost looks like the bracelet is pressing against the focus ring, but I guess it is only pressing against the brass ring sitting further back.
Logged

uaiomex

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1211
    • http://www.eduardocervantes.com
Re: Hartblei lens collar/mount for Canon TSE lenses
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2011, 04:15:23 pm »

http://i964.photobucket.com/albums/ae124/Uaio/Stitch%20Slide%20Ruler/_MG_0849.jpg

http://i964.photobucket.com/albums/ae124/Uaio/Stitch%20Slide%20Ruler/_MG_0844.jpg

http://i964.photobucket.com/albums/ae124/Uaio/Stitch%20Slide%20Ruler/_MG_0845.jpg

http://i964.photobucket.com/albums/ae124/Uaio/Stitch%20Slide%20Ruler/_MG_0846.jpg

http://i964.photobucket.com/albums/ae124/Uaio/Stitch%20Slide%20Ruler/_MG_0852.jpg


In the first pic we have the original box with the illustration of the close-up bellows. As you can see the first standard (left side) is the one for the lens. This bellows had a great left or right sliding movement as well as a lateral tilt. What I did, was to leave only the lens standard naked to the very base where the gear mechanism resides. On top of this, I attached a Manfrotto quick shoe adapter. That was the easy part.

In the last picture you can see the main standard base with gear mechanism by itself. For this part I went to a machinist for help. He had to disassembly the whole thing in order to drill a way to screw the adapter. No big deal for him actually. But the real tricky part was putting back the gear mechanism exactly the way it was. On first attempts, it created a loose movement with some slack. Very annoying. Finally he got it done with precision motion and tightness.

The ruler has 3 tripod connectors. One in center and the other two near the ends. This is also helpful for putting the lens' nodal point in place for non flat stitching.

Hope this helps anyone. Most possibly, many other close-úp bellows can be converted too.
Eduardo
« Last Edit: November 02, 2011, 04:37:49 pm by uaiomex »
Logged

Peter Barnes

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 36
    • Peter Barnes photographer
Re: Hartblei lens collar/mount for Canon TSE lenses
« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2011, 07:46:23 pm »

Thanks Eduardo for the very clear photos.  I have a cheap Chinese 'macro rail' that looks similar, but is not so long. Can you please explain how you use yours  to take interior photos for stitching?
Peter
Logged
Peter Barnes

uaiomex

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1211
    • http://www.eduardocervantes.com
Re: Hartblei lens collar/mount for Canon TSE lenses
« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2011, 08:20:48 pm »

Actually, all you need is 24mm. I'll post a few pics how the rig looks with a camera.
Eduardo

Thanks Eduardo for the very clear photos.  I have a cheap Chinese 'macro rail' that looks similar, but is not so long. Can you please explain how you use yours  to take interior photos for stitching?
Peter
Logged

Peter Barnes

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 36
    • Peter Barnes photographer
Re: Hartblei lens collar/mount for Canon TSE lenses
« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2011, 08:25:35 pm »

Eduardo,
Is the idea that you keep the lens in the one place by moving the camera on the slider in the opposite direction to the horizontal shift of the lens?  And do you do this accurately by using the measure on the slider?  Or is there another way to know that you have the lens back in its original position?
Peter
Logged
Peter Barnes

uaiomex

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1211
    • http://www.eduardocervantes.com
Re: Hartblei lens collar/mount for Canon TSE lenses
« Reply #14 on: November 02, 2011, 09:01:58 pm »

Peter:
The idea is to keep the lens exactly in the same place. Once you shift (say 10mm) to the left, then you shift the entire camera 10 mm to the right. This way, the lens "didn't move in space". Only the sensor did. That's why a ruler with precise markings and movements is a must. I think all good geared bellows extensions meet this. The Minolta was perfect. Or you can buy just the slide ruler with gear control. I think Manfrotto sells one which is inexpensive. There are other vendors too.

Read this: http://www.outbackphoto.com/workflow/wf_58/essay.html

Eduardo

Eduardo,
Is the idea that you keep the lens in the one place by moving the camera on the slider in the opposite direction to the horizontal shift of the lens?  And do you do this accurately by using the measure on the slider?  Or is there another way to know that you have the lens back in its original position?
Peter
« Last Edit: November 02, 2011, 09:21:01 pm by uaiomex »
Logged

Bart_van_der_Wolf

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8913
Re: Hartblei lens collar/mount for Canon TSE lenses
« Reply #15 on: November 02, 2011, 09:17:48 pm »

Is the idea that you keep the lens in the one place by moving the camera on the slider in the opposite direction to the horizontal shift of the lens?

Hi Peter,

Yes, either that or fix the entrance pupil of the lens in a stationary position with a lens collar or stand, and only move the sensor/body.

Quote
And do you do this accurately by using the measure on the slider?  Or is there another way to know that you have the lens back in its original position?

I use the following solution for the counter shift approach:


Cheers,
Bart
Logged
== If you do what you did, you'll get what you got. ==

asf

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 510
    • http://www.adamfriedberg.com
Re: Hartblei lens collar/mount for Canon TSE lenses
« Reply #16 on: November 02, 2011, 10:31:52 pm »

I use Novoflex rails for this (disclosure - selling one of them)
Logged

Kirk Gittings

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1561
    • http://www.KirkGittings.com
Re: Hartblei lens collar/mount for Canon TSE lenses
« Reply #17 on: November 02, 2011, 10:47:19 pm »

When not using my alpa's I use the same setup as you Kirk, also on a daily basis - and I have parallex problems from time to time, when not moving the camera to compensate for the lens movement.

So in my opinion it could be needed....

/adam

I have heard this from other people but have literally never experienced it. Over the last two weeks I have done probably 2 dozen simple shift stitches, interiors and exteriors, many with close objects and no problems what so ever. Believe me if I ever had a problem I would do something about it, because many things I shoot cannot be reshot or are too expensive to reshoot.
Logged
Thanks,
Kirk Gittings

uaiomex

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1211
    • http://www.eduardocervantes.com
Re: Hartblei lens collar/mount for Canon TSE lenses
« Reply #18 on: November 03, 2011, 12:31:01 pm »

Could you please tell me about your workflow and perhaps show a screen capture of your settings in Photomerge. Maybe I'm doing something wrong.
Thanks
Eduardo

I have heard this from other people but have literally never experienced it. Over the last two weeks I have done probably 2 dozen simple shift stitches, interiors and exteriors, many with close objects and no problems what so ever. Believe me if I ever had a problem I would do something about it, because many things I shoot cannot be reshot or are too expensive to reshoot.
Logged

AJSJones

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 357
Re: Hartblei lens collar/mount for Canon TSE lenses
« Reply #19 on: November 06, 2011, 06:25:44 pm »

Has anyone had experience with, or know of a review of the Hartblei collar mount for Canon TSE lenses?  http://www.hartblei.de/en/canon-tse-collar.htm
The lens can only be shifted left to right (no matter what position the camera is in) so vertical flat stitch using rise/fall is not easily done unless the while collar is mounted sideways and hanging off the head.  Allowing the repositioning of the U collar horizontally would have allowed this but they did not include this in the design :(  Like Peter,  I'll keep going with the X part of the cheap Chinese X-Y translator (which I got for my DSLR based 4x5 scanner :D)
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up