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Author Topic: QUESTION!!! Choosing MFDB between P21+ & Aptus 22  (Read 6237 times)

mjkim

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QUESTION!!! Choosing MFDB between P21+ & Aptus 22
« on: October 27, 2011, 11:44:29 am »

Hello there
I am a professional shooter but total beginner for MFDB.
As I have Mamiya RZ Pro II D system, I decide try out with digital back.
I am going to shoot mainly shoot portraiture with it and please can someone suggest ups and downs of those 2 backs?
My main concern is is it worth buying one of the back as both backs are quite old?!
 
I would very much appreciate your help.

Best

MJ
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gss

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Re: QUESTION!!! Choosing MFDB between P21+ & Aptus 22
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2011, 12:21:32 pm »

I have a Leaf Aptus 22.  I think it's a great back which renders skin very nicely, certainly worth getting.
One difference between the PhaseOne P21+ and the Leaf Aptus 22 is that the Leaf's battery covers the firewire port, so there is no way to use battery power when tethering.  If the firewire doesn't supply sufficient power you have to use a powered firewire repeater to boost it.  This becomes a real problem when tethering on location.  The PhaseOne backs, on the other hand, allow one to use the battery when tethering.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2011, 12:24:05 pm by gss »
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mjkim

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Re: QUESTION!!! Choosing MFDB between P21+ & Aptus 22
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2011, 01:59:49 pm »

Thank you!
So apart from the location of fire wire port, you are happy with the quality of images and handling?
Best
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treyclark

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Re: QUESTION!!! Choosing MFDB between P21+ & Aptus 22
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2011, 02:33:58 pm »

I had the Aptus 22/54s on a Hasselblad H2. Great skin tones, but the moire on men's suits was a pita.
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paul_jones

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Re: QUESTION!!! Choosing MFDB between P21+ & Aptus 22
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2011, 05:10:39 pm »

i think the extra crop that the p21 does would drive you mad. the a22 will still be a big crop, but nearly as much.

i had a a22 for a while (with an h) and its a nice back. quick shooting and nice files at 50-100 iso, 200 tolerable and 400 un-usable unless you are throwing on grain in post.

doesn't the p21 require a wake up cord or something on this camera? a22 won't.

c1 is the best software to work with, so best to check if the older apt us backs will work with it. i know the newer leaf backs do.

paul
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mjkim

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Re: QUESTION!!! Choosing MFDB between P21+ & Aptus 22
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2011, 05:17:10 pm »

Thank you Paul
I can find lots of info regarding Aptus22 but not much on P21+...
I've been shooting 5DMK2, 1Ds MK3 and 1D MK4, and obviously RZ with film so don't have any idea how crop factor will make me feel.
as long as it produce decent quality files I should be happy.
So more favor to Aptus22 than P21+ so far.
Anyone has favor to P21+???
Best


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gss

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Re: QUESTION!!! Choosing MFDB between P21+ & Aptus 22
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2011, 05:22:29 pm »

Aside from the firewire power issues, it is a very nice back.  It is showing its age a bit, since it was introduced 6 years ago, but its files still beat those from my Nikon D3X.  I think it is a great way to get into MFDB without spending a lot of money.

One really nice advantage is that it has 25 ISO, which helps when balancing strobes with sunlight.

Moiré can be a bit of a pain since the 22 megapixels resonate with a lot of fabrics at shooting distance, but since CaptureOne introduced localized moiré correction it has become a lot easier to deal with.
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gss

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Re: QUESTION!!! Choosing MFDB between P21+ & Aptus 22
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2011, 05:27:25 pm »

c1 is the best software to work with, so best to check if the older apt us backs will work with it. i know the newer leaf backs do.

paul
Hi Paul.
C1 will indeed work with the Aptus 22, but you have to buy the professional version ($400).  I think it is well worth it.
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mjkim

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Re: QUESTION!!! Choosing MFDB between P21+ & Aptus 22
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2011, 05:38:20 pm »

Thank you Gss
I almost made mind to Aptus22! :D
Do you know what I can do if i want thedering without battery? I think someone mentioned powered firewire cable???
best
MJ
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gss

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Re: QUESTION!!! Choosing MFDB between P21+ & Aptus 22
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2011, 06:05:40 pm »

Thank you Gss
I almost made mind to Aptus22! :D
Do you know what I can do if i want thedering without battery? I think someone mentioned powered firewire cable???
best
MJ
It is possible that your computer's firewire will provide sufficient power.
I use a Laird firewire repeater 400/400, with a short 800/400 cable attached to the laptop.
http://www.markertek.com/Routers-Switchers-DA's/FireWire-Repeaters-DAs/Laird-Telemedia/LTM-FDR.xhtml?LTM-FDR
By the way, I use just one, as I'm not trying to run a 75 foot cable, even though the page I linked states that you need two of these.

It might be a good idea to contact the folks at Capture Integration about this.  I think they have some ready-made solutions for supplementing power during tethering.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2011, 06:08:51 pm by gss »
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mjkim

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Re: QUESTION!!! Choosing MFDB between P21+ & Aptus 22
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2011, 06:11:10 pm »

Thanks!
to sum up all this I will be needed
1. Leaf aptus 22 back
2. capture One pro
3. Laird firewire repeater 400/400, with a short 800/400 cable (or speak to CI guys)
4. how about adapter plate?????
5. viewfinder mask for RZ ???

Best
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epines

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Re: QUESTION!!! Choosing MFDB between P21+ & Aptus 22
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2011, 08:09:46 pm »

I've used an Aptus 54S for almost three years and never had to power it separately when tethering; the firewire always provided enough power. The Aptus 22 was, I believe, the version just before mine, so maybe it was different for that model.

mjkim

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Re: QUESTION!!! Choosing MFDB between P21+ & Aptus 22
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2011, 09:41:33 am »

Thank you for all answers!!!  :D
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mediumcool

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Re: QUESTION!!! Choosing MFDB between P21+ & Aptus 22
« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2011, 08:06:18 am »

Aptus 22 is a great back, but no good for long exposures—I can get to about 10s and then noise starts in.
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micek

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Re: QUESTION!!! Choosing MFDB between P21+ & Aptus 22
« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2011, 09:13:39 am »

Quote
Thanks!
to sum up all this I will be needed
1. Leaf aptus 22 back
2. capture One pro
3. Laird firewire repeater 400/400, with a short 800/400 cable (or speak to CI guys)
4. how about adapter plate??
5. viewfinder mask for RZ

You don't need Capture One pro. Leaf software is free and perfectly capable of rendering raw files beautifully. Severe moire can be a problem with both softwares, and light moire is easily cleared by both softwares.
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mediumcool

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Re: QUESTION!!! Choosing MFDB between P21+ & Aptus 22
« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2011, 09:54:45 am »

The OP may wish to download a demo of C1, try it for 30 days and then decide on software. I won’t use anything else for initial processing.

But free is good.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2011, 07:07:20 pm by mediumcool »
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mjkim

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Re: QUESTION!!! Choosing MFDB between P21+ & Aptus 22
« Reply #16 on: November 04, 2011, 05:03:30 pm »

Thanks, I won't use long shutter so it won't be a problem.
I will try leaf & capture one and decide which is works better for me.
Cheers guys!
MJ
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gss

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Re: QUESTION!!! Choosing MFDB between P21+ & Aptus 22
« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2011, 08:35:53 pm »

The reasons I prefer CaptureOne are that it cuts down on the number of raw processors I need to learn and it does a nice job of rendering.   I now use it for tethering both Nikon and Leaf, and even wish I could use it for Hasselblad (though I know that will not happen).  If I ever switch from Leaf to PhaseOne, I won't have a learning curve for the software.  It's not that any of these are difficult to learn, just that once you've gotten used to them it makes shooting that much smoother.
On the other hand, free is nice.
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Brian Hirschfeld

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Re: QUESTION!!! Choosing MFDB between P21+ & Aptus 22
« Reply #18 on: November 27, 2011, 03:27:53 pm »

I would go PhaseOne all the way......

Here are my experiences with the two camera companies....I went with the IQ180 in the end....hence my preference, but I really think they are built and function better.

Leaf:
http://brianhirschfeldphotography.com/?p=621

Phase:
http://brianhirschfeldphotography.com/?p=603

Ignore all the stupid comments....they got hacked....
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Leica / Nikon / Hasselblad / Mamiya ~ Proud IQ180 owner

bcooter

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Re: QUESTION!!! Choosing MFDB between P21+ & Aptus 22
« Reply #19 on: November 28, 2011, 03:45:31 am »

i think the extra crop that the p21 does would drive you mad. the a22 will still be a big crop, but nearly as much.

i had a a22 for a while (with an h) and its a nice back. quick shooting and nice files at 50-100 iso, 200 tolerable and 400 un-usable unless you are throwing on grain in post.

doesn't the p21 require a wake up cord or something on this camera? a22 won't.

c1 is the best software to work with, so best to check if the older apt us backs will work with it. i know the newer leaf backs do.

paul


The 645 film crop to an Aptus 22 is 1.16 to a P21 is 1.26.   Not much even on an RZ and every digital back is going to look small on an RZ.



I'll admit I like the slightly extra territory of the 1.16 crop but after a while it doesn't really matter and you get use to the 1.26 format.

I've owned an Aptus 22 for a year, a P21+ and a P30+ for multiple years and the Phase backs never went into the shop for anything, the Aptus went in 4 times for overheating, lcd replacement,  overshooting then jamming and centerfold.

Now in Leaf's favor they were kind enough to make all the fixes eventually, (the overshooting took a long time before it was acknowledged, but the rest were done quickly through (then) Leaf Of America.

The Aptus 22 was a stop slower than the P21, had an effective use about 1 and 1/2 stops less than the P30+.

I do think the Aptus had a nice look when processed in photoshop, in my view less so in LC 10, 11, etc. and I've never tried it in C-1 because I sold it before Leaf was acquired by Phase.

Tethering finally became better in lc11 though never as robust as C-1.

I like the interface of the Leaf Touch screen better, but didn't like the fact that it cannot power itself when tethered, the battery use, the fact that the battery hung down out of the back of the camera and the fact you can't see the image on the back of the camera when tethering.

I find the last part maddening, even though the lcd's on medium format backs weren't at the time that good, it at least let you see the composition of the image without running over to the computer station.

I also found the aptus 22 a moire machine, on a lot of garments, things the p21+ didn't see as much, the p30+ never saw.

For processing the Phase files go into about anything compressed or non compressed, the Leaf files have to be decompressed before going into lightroom.

Actually, unless you shoot fast I'd look for a good used p30+.

IMO

BC


« Last Edit: November 28, 2011, 03:48:08 am by bcooter »
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