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Author Topic: Is it advisable to run LR3 data off a fast external FW800/eSATA HD?  (Read 6179 times)

hassiman

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Is it advisable to run LR3 data off an external FW800 HD? ???

Was thinking of using a CalDigit VR Mini... either FW800 or eSATA.
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kevk

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Re: Is it advisable to run LR3 data off a fast external FW800/eSATA HD?
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2011, 09:44:19 pm »

Works for me.
I have all my images, LR catalog, preview cache, preferences etc on a 2TB eSata external drive.
Makes it easy to go mobile (just plug the external drive into the eSata port on laptop), and to do off-site backups etc.

The copy-on-import version of imported images goes to a NAS, so the images never live on my desktop - only on NAS and eSata connected external drives.

Kevin
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Steve Weldon

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Re: Is it advisable to run LR3 data off a fast external FW800/eSATA HD?
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2011, 10:08:54 pm »

Depending if your Esata port is a SATA or SATA II, and depending on the drive you're connecting, you could end up with the same exact speed as if it were internal.  If you're speaking of a laptop, you'll actually gain performance by carefully choosing an external which houses 3.5" desktop drives.  USB 3.0 will get you there as well.  

Last week I completed a short review on a $119 (now $110 on Amazon) 3tb USB 3.0 external which houses a SATA III/6gb/s top Seagate desktop drive which by itself is $179 on Amazon.. so you have the choice of removing the drive to mount internally if you like and saving some money in the process.  In any case, the review should give you some ideas along these lines.  The short answer, is USB 3.0 maxed out the speed of this very fast 3.5 inch desktop drive and would make a very decent boot drive if one was so inclined.

FW800.. I wouldn't bother.  I'm not 100%, but I've never seen one you can boot from and only Mac actually supported FW800 and it's currently a dying interface.  Good luck.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2011, 10:11:00 pm by Steve Weldon »
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David Eichler

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Re: Is it advisable to run LR3 data off a fast external FW800/eSATA HD?
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2011, 10:30:13 pm »

Depending if your Esata port is a SATA or SATA II, and depending on the drive you're connecting, you could end up with the same exact speed as if it were internal.  If you're speaking of a laptop, you'll actually gain performance by carefully choosing an external which houses 3.5" desktop drives.  USB 3.0 will get you there as well.  

Last week I completed a short review on a $119 (now $110 on Amazon) 3tb USB 3.0 external which houses a SATA III/6gb/s top Seagate desktop drive which by itself is $179 on Amazon.. so you have the choice of removing the drive to mount internally if you like and saving some money in the process.  In any case, the review should give you some ideas along these lines.  The short answer, is USB 3.0 maxed out the speed of this very fast 3.5 inch desktop drive and would make a very decent boot drive if one was so inclined.

FW800.. I wouldn't bother.  I'm not 100%, but I've never seen one you can boot from and only Mac actually supported FW800 and it's currently a dying interface.  Good luck.

I keep my images on external FW800 drives and use LR3, with the catalog on my iMac internal hard drive. Don't have an eSATA option, but this works okay, and I am doing pretty high volume work with largish files from a 5dII, although I could always use more speed. Why wouldn't FW800 work for a boot drive when USB2 works? Anyway, perhaps I don't understand enough about this, but it didn't seem that the OP's question was about drives for booting from, just about storage for LR3 images/catalogs.
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Steve Weldon

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Re: Is it advisable to run LR3 data off a fast external FW800/eSATA HD?
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2011, 11:22:00 pm »

I keep my images on external FW800 drives and use LR3, with the catalog on my iMac internal hard drive. Don't have an eSATA option, but this works okay, and I am doing pretty high volume work with largish files from a 5dII, although I could always use more speed. Why wouldn't FW800 work for a boot drive when USB2 works? Anyway, perhaps I don't understand enough about this, but it didn't seem that the OP's question was about drives for booting from, just about storage for LR3 images/catalogs.
Many BIOS's don't support booting from certain devices.  I've never seen one (on a Windows PC) that allows booting from FW800.. there could be one, I've just not seen it and I work with a lot of boxes.

Sure, FW800 works decently for data/work files, but not as good as more modern interfaces like Thunderbolt, USB3.0, Esata.. and if you have a choice why not go with something not already being phased out?

And you're right, he didn't mention booting.  But he might want to think in this direction.  An external drive, properly selected and connected, will provide significant performance gains and file transfer speeds over a laptop internal.  You don't have to give up being able to boot off the laptop internal.  You merely have OS's on both the internal and the external, and boot off the external when it's used to speed up performance.

As as example.  A very fast 3.5" 3tb External SATAIII is currently $110 with free shipping.  3tb is enough to run your OS/programs, and data.. partition it if you like.. and enjoy the performance boost.  No sense to keep using a slower internal laptop drive if it's indeed slower.  It might be a SSD..  I was just throwing some options out there.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2011, 11:24:36 pm by Steve Weldon »
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Schewe

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Re: Is it advisable to run LR3 data off a fast external FW800/eSATA HD?
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2011, 11:34:46 pm »

And you're right, he didn't mention booting.

It would be useful if the OP posted his CPU and OS to really give him reasonable answers to his question. The fact he mentions FW800 leads me to think he's on Mac, but without knowing, we don't know ad all we can do is waste time speculating...
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hassiman

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Re: Is it advisable to run LR3 data off a fast external FW800/eSATA HD?
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2011, 12:03:45 pm »

Hi Jeff,

I am running a MacPro with 2 dual core 2.66GH Xeon processors running 9GB RAM with Snow Leopard OS.

My externals are really nice CalDigit VR MINI externals that will boot Bus powered FW800 or eSATA with external power.  These little CalDigits have extremly quick throughput and can be set to RAID 0 - 1 - JBOD or span.  I run mine RAID 1 for data.  I don't do a lot of volume but have big files as most are scans of 6X6 film from a CoolScan 9000.  By the time I have a few layers going or LR adjustment the files can get fairly big.  Say 1.4+ GB.
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meyerweb

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Re: Is it advisable to run LR3 data off a fast external FW800/eSATA HD?
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2011, 03:27:34 pm »


Last week I completed a short review on a $119 (now $110 on Amazon) 3tb USB 3.0 external which houses a SATA III/6gb/s top Seagate desktop drive which by itself is $179 on Amazon.. so you have the choice of removing the drive to mount internally if you like and saving some money in the process.  In any case, the review should give you some ideas along these lines.  The short answer, is USB 3.0 maxed out the speed of this very fast 3.5 inch desktop drive and would make a very decent boot drive if one was so inclined.


Sweet deal.  Just ordered drive and a USB 3.0 card. (My computer's old enough it has only USB 2.0 on board. With this setup, I'll put both the image library, the catalog and the ACR cache on the USB 3.0 drive and simply transfer it between my laptop and desktop as needed. Yes, I'll only get 2.0 speeds on the laptop, but it's pretty slow anyway, and I only use it for quick reviews and simple edits.
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Steve Weldon

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Re: Is it advisable to run LR3 data off a fast external FW800/eSATA HD?
« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2011, 05:03:16 pm »

Sweet deal.  Just ordered drive and a USB 3.0 card. (My computer's old enough it has only USB 2.0 on board. With this setup, I'll put both the image library, the catalog and the ACR cache on the USB 3.0 drive and simply transfer it between my laptop and desktop as needed. Yes, I'll only get 2.0 speeds on the laptop, but it's pretty slow anyway, and I only use it for quick reviews and simple edits.

If your laptop has a expresscard slot you can get an inexpensive (about $20) USB3.0 card for it..

With the great hard drive shortage of 2011, it's nice to know you can still get Seagates top 3tb drive for $110.. ;o)
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Craig Lamson

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Re: Is it advisable to run LR3 data off a fast external FW800/eSATA HD?
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2011, 07:41:05 pm »

Depending if your Esata port is a SATA or SATA II, and depending on the drive you're connecting, you could end up with the same exact speed as if it were internal.  If you're speaking of a laptop, you'll actually gain performance by carefully choosing an external which houses 3.5" desktop drives.  USB 3.0 will get you there as well.  

Last week I completed a short review on a $119 (now $110 on Amazon) 3tb USB 3.0 external which houses a SATA III/6gb/s top Seagate desktop drive which by itself is $179 on Amazon.. so you have the choice of removing the drive to mount internally if you like and saving some money in the process.  In any case, the review should give you some ideas along these lines.  The short answer, is USB 3.0 maxed out the speed of this very fast 3.5 inch desktop drive and would make a very decent boot drive if one was so inclined.

FW800.. I wouldn't bother.  I'm not 100%, but I've never seen one you can boot from and only Mac actually supported FW800 and it's currently a dying interface.  Good luck.

I just got in 2 of the Seagate Go Flex USB 3.0 3tb externals, at $129. The Go Flex is a nice enclosure but the best part is they too are stuffed with the ST3000DM001 drives which will soon be residing inside my computer....
« Last Edit: October 25, 2011, 07:58:47 pm by Craig Lamson »
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Steve Weldon

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Re: Is it advisable to run LR3 data off a fast external FW800/eSATA HD?
« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2011, 07:47:15 pm »

I just got in 2 of the Seagate Go Flex USB 3.0 3tb externals, at $129. The Go Flex is a nine enclosure but the best part is they too are stuffed with the ST3000DM001 drives which will soon be residing inside my computer....
Nice.  Current price for the ST3000DM001 bare bones is $189 and going up every day.. meanwhile the Expansion I mentioned is going down (with the same drives inside) and the Goflex are maintaining..  I'm ordering two of the Goflex, I like their enclosures.. I'll strip out the ST30000DM001's and replace them with some 1-2tb's I replace them with..
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Craig Lamson

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Re: Is it advisable to run LR3 data off a fast external FW800/eSATA HD?
« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2011, 08:00:47 pm »

Nice.  Current price for the ST3000DM001 bare bones is $189 and going up every day.. meanwhile the Expansion I mentioned is going down (with the same drives inside) and the Goflex are maintaining..  I'm ordering two of the Goflex, I like their enclosures.. I'll strip out the ST30000DM001's and replace them with some 1-2tb's I replace them with..

I just checked Amazon fro the Expansions and they don't have any.  I've got another Go Flex on the way too.

Th Go Flex line has a new V2.0 Enclosure.  I'm guessing that's why the current stock is so cheap.
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Steve Weldon

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Re: Is it advisable to run LR3 data off a fast external FW800/eSATA HD?
« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2011, 09:11:52 pm »

I just checked Amazon fro the Expansions and they don't have any.  I've got another Go Flex on the way too.

Th Go Flex line has a new V2.0 Enclosure.  I'm guessing that's why the current stock is so cheap.
I ordered 2..

It's not like I need them right at the moment, but if I get a defective drive or two I'd need to replace them and it appears that won't be cheap until well into next year.e
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meyerweb

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Re: Is it advisable to run LR3 data off a fast external FW800/eSATA HD?
« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2011, 10:27:00 am »

If your laptop has a expresscard slot you can get an inexpensive (about $20) USB3.0 card for it..

With the great hard drive shortage of 2011, it's nice to know you can still get Seagates top 3tb drive for $110.. ;o)

Thanks for that tip, Steve.  Looks like I'm headed back to Amazon.
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Steve Weldon

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Re: Is it advisable to run LR3 data off a fast external FW800/eSATA HD?
« Reply #14 on: October 31, 2011, 12:03:34 pm »

Steve,

Don't take this the wrong way. You got a deal on a large capacity drive, but by no means did you get Seagate's "top of the line" hard drive.

There's a reason the drive you bought only has a 1 year warranty. Seagate bare internals have 5 year warranties. And the drive model number you give isn't the top Barracuda XT (non enterprise) models.

Not all drives are created equal, that's why you got a 3TB drive at that price. All the companies make drives to different standards, just the facts. Most prepackaged external drives have 1-3 year warranties while the internals have 3-5 year warranties. It says a lot when a company only warrants a product for a year and another "similar" one for 5 years.

The drive you bought is now $249 via that Amazon link, unfortunately the deal has passed for others since drive prices now are all over the place with the shake-up from the flooding. Identical drive model numbers are being priced no where close from Tiger Direct to Macsales to B&H for bare internals from any brand. As long a warranty as possible is a good thing for drives. I've swapped out Seagates just shy of the 5 year time and those replacements are still going.

My feeling is buy cheap cables for anything, monoprice.com comes to mind, buy 87 octane, socks don't need to be pricey, nor white tees. But when it comes to data, simply buying the cheapest drives is something I never understand. I buy bare drives in triple, 2 are made RAID 1 and the third is an off site backup on a weekly schedule done with a drive dock. Expensive yes, but for client work, it's a minimum to insure data is protected from the basic failures of a single drive and immediate theft or fire.

-


1.  Tell me what drive from Seagate is better, and why.  Curious how you're evaluating this.

2.  There is a reason for a 1 year warranty.  But why do you assume it's only defined by the bare drive itself?  How about the enclosure, support circuitry (USB interface), marketing competition, and the way it's designed to be used?  External drives get a lot more physical abuse from being knocked around than does an internal.  As an example, Seagates Goflex drive has the exact same bare drive as the Expansion.  One has a 2 year warranty, one has a 1 year warranty.   So yes, there is a reason it has a one year warranty but not necessarily because the bare drive itself is inferior in any way.

3.  Which one is and how does it differ from the one you think is the top one?   You don't think it's possible Seagate uses one model number to supply their external drives and another for their internal, and they might be the same drive?  I don't know that they do, but the specs show them to be the same based on specifications alone.. I understand there could be more to it, but I can't find more to it.

4.  Yes it does.  But I don't think we're hearing the same things.  You're hearing the drives are different, one made to lesser standards.  I'm hearing they're being used for different purposes, an external drive in inherently more prone to damage.   What I'm hearing is rather obvious, but you're hearing might or might not be.. but I've seen nothing to support what you said.  Your entire premise seems to be that the warranty alone defines the quality of a drive for reasons not listed in the specifications.  There could be differences, but I don't think the warranty has much to do with it.

5.  The $110 price was good for about 2 weeks AFTER internal drives took a hit in price.  I suppose it took about 2 weeks for word to filter out that you could get top quality 3tb drives from inside lower priced external enclosures.  Btw.. the brand new 3tb Goflex model with the exact same internal drive as the Expansion is still $159..  I'd get yours soon.

6.  Hmmm.. you wear white tees and cheap socks and drive a car that takes 87 octane.. I suppose they fit your needs.  But I wouldn't presume to think you bought them just because they were cheap.  I'll never understand those who evaluate products based on price alone, there really is a lot more to it.
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Steve Weldon

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Re: Is it advisable to run LR3 data off a fast external FW800/eSATA HD?
« Reply #15 on: November 01, 2011, 03:18:20 am »

And the drive model number you give isn't the top Barracuda XT (non enterprise) models.



This is easy to get mixed up on, but if this chart from Seagate didn't make this clear then maybe this review from Storage Review will be helpful.  This quote from the review on the (ST3000DM001) 3tb Seagate XT Barracuda (the drive inside the Expansion and Goflex) is especially useful.

"This past spring Seagate started shipping the 3TB Barracuda XT (review) which was a pretty solid offering. Seagate quickly followed up that release with an announcement that a new 3TB Barracuda XT would feature three 1TB platters instead of the five 600GB platters seen in the first version. Seagate's about a quarter late in delivering the new 1TB platter technology, but sometimes new technology is better late than never...especially when top line sequential read and write speeds top 190 MB/s, an improvement thanks to the new platters of 30%."

As their chart shows, it's their very latest newest top model.. perhaps so new it's not well known yet?  Their sequential read/write speeds are right in line with my own review providing you're sourcing from a fast enough drive.  I also like what they say about the 5 platter 5tb possibly soon to come drive.. Can't wait!
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meyerweb

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Re: Is it advisable to run LR3 data off a fast external FW800/eSATA HD?
« Reply #16 on: November 07, 2011, 09:02:05 pm »

Sweet deal.  Just ordered drive and a USB 3.0 card. (My computer's old enough it has only USB 2.0 on board. With this setup, I'll put both the image library, the catalog and the ACR cache on the USB 3.0 drive and simply transfer it between my laptop and desktop as needed. Yes, I'll only get 2.0 speeds on the laptop, but it's pretty slow anyway, and I only use it for quick reviews and simple edits.

If your laptop has a expresscard slot you can get an inexpensive (about $20) USB3.0 card for it..

With the great hard drive shortage of 2011, it's nice to know you can still get Seagates top 3tb drive for $110.. ;o)

For anyone who might be interested, I have the referenced Seagate drive connected to my desktop via a USB 3.0 Express PCI card, and to my laptop with a USB 3.0 ExpressCard adapter. I've put the image library, catalog, and ACR cache on the drive and access the same catalog, keyword hierarchy, preview files and images on both machines.

It works great. I haven't done any measured tests, but on my desktop LR feels slightly faster with the external drive. That may be my imagination, but it certainly isn't any slower.

On the laptop, LR seems to perform about the same, but I think the laptop is memory limited more than anything else.  Many thanks, Steve, for pointing me in this direction.
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Steve Weldon

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Re: Is it advisable to run LR3 data off a fast external FW800/eSATA HD?
« Reply #17 on: November 07, 2011, 11:12:53 pm »

Steve,

I stand corrected on that drive. I couldn't find good info on that drive model number. Seagate officially announced today how their new lineup shakes out. The ST3000DM00(x) model series now replaces the Barracuda XT line of drives and the XT line will become hybrid drives soon.
I couldn't find definitive data either, not at first.  But once I realized it was a three platter drive and a new model number I made the assumption it was their newest drive, nothing else made sense to me.   Plus the performance was significantly faster than their ex-best drive.. so I suppose I guessed it was their newest drive.  But when I called their tech and asked some pointed questions and they said 'we'd all know soon' then I was pretty sure.

You're right about the warranty.. but I'm not real concerned.  I often don't bother with processing warranties on products in this price range unless it goes bad right away and I ran the SMART tests (another clue it was their newest drive when it comes back "nothing to compare against") so not a big concern.  Still, with this drive you're not breaking any seals and there's no tags warning you off.. so I don't think there's much to stop you from putting it back in the case and warrantying it if you're so inclined.

Let's hope we see the speculated 5tb 5 platter drive soon.. ;o)
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Steve Weldon

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Re: Is it advisable to run LR3 data off a fast external FW800/eSATA HD?
« Reply #18 on: November 07, 2011, 11:27:50 pm »

For anyone who might be interested, I have the referenced Seagate drive connected to my desktop via a USB 3.0 Express PCI card, and to my laptop with a USB 3.0 ExpressCard adapter. I've put the image library, catalog, and ACR cache on the drive and access the same catalog, keyword hierarchy, preview files and images on both machines.

It works great. I haven't done any measured tests, but on my desktop LR feels slightly faster with the external drive. That may be my imagination, but it certainly isn't any slower.

On the laptop, LR seems to perform about the same, but I think the laptop is memory limited more than anything else.  Many thanks, Steve, for pointing me in this direction.

Good to hear!  It's pretty easy to use a program like AS SSD (download here) and measure your read/write sequentials and see exactly how fast the drive is compared to your internals if you feel it's worth the time.  And it could have benefits.  For instance, if you test and find the new drive is say 30-40% faster but LR is feeling the same.. then you can guess with some accuracy your bottleneck is somewhere else.  It could be you left your indexes and database on your internal drive (though you'd know this right away when you moved the drive back and forth between machines), or as you say a lack of RAM overhead..   I prefer to know, it helps me plan my next move.

I had to update the firmware on my USB 3.0 chipset to get the right speeds (made a big difference) and on another machine I had to update the BIOS.. I have a USB 3.0 bare adapter to test drives with which has paid for itself several times over.  I plug a fast SATA 6gb/s SSD in this and make sure my USB 3.0 ports are working as they should.  They always work, but they often work slower than they should, and there are many chipset firmware and driver updates out there.. We used to have to test USB 2.0 in the same manner until it became part of the motherboard chipsets and supported directly in Windows.. many people thought they were running USB 2.0 and were disappointed with the performance.. and now we have the same going on with USB 3.0.. so best to test it to be sure until USB 3.0 becomes native..

I'm glad you could benefit from the information.
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